Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What is needed is teachers who are able to reach these "gifted" kids. Constantly berating us for having "bad social skills" isn't going to reach us. If we ask a question that may be beyond the curriculum, telling us that "there are kids who are struggling" isn't going to get us on their side.
Maybe guidance counselors and/or social workers who specialize in "gifted" kids are needed. I remember the social worker at my high school told me that I was a "social idiot". That caused me to dismiss anything that he ever said, and see him as unprofessional. "Idiot" is a deprecated term for a specific IQ range, before it became a playground insult. Unless that social worker tested me and determined that my social IQ (if that even exists) was within that range (and he never gave such a test), it was unprofessional to have used that term, and even then, he should not have been using a deprecated term that has become a playground insult.
It's interesting that I meet some of your requirements for "gifted" but am totally opposite some of the other requirements.
Quote from one of the most gifted math students I knew when my son was in high school to his math teacher "Why should my education be limited by your knowledge." That teacher quoted that in many of his seminars about teaching math. And it was helpful to realize that teachers and students could learn together if the teacher did not have the knowledge in his toolbox.
I never saw athletes get mistreated, picked on, left out or excluded from anything. Many of them were almost hero-worshipped by the student body, parents and coaches.
I wouldn't say my sons were ever mistreated. The few instances where they had friction it was from TEACHERS not other students, parents, or coaches.
Even my self proclaimed "band nerd" son was never mistreated by other students or coaches. We had quite a few football player/cheerleader/band member families and the kids often went out together after games. My sons often went out together with a group of players, cheerleaders, and band members after games.
The very few incidents they incurred were from teachers, which is surprising to me. You would think teachers would respect kids who put in a lot of time in extracurricular activities and also got good grades.
The OP was using "gifted" to refer to high achieving students who are poor at sports and who, whether rightly or wrongly, or labeled as having poor social skills. Scholar athletes, by definition, were not who he was referring to.
I don't see any of this in the original post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001
The OP was not using the word "gifted" in the sense that your kids' elementary school "gifted" program used it. At my elementary school, so "gifted" program was for quiet, compliant students, mostly girls, who the 2nd grade teachers liked. That is not who the OP was referring to.
How do you know? My kids had to test into the gifted program in our school system. Even though they attended a charter school they still had to have the standard gifted tests (so the charter school got the extra money for them).
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001
Honors and AP classes are not "gifted" education.
I'm not sure this thread is about gifted education but rather about gifted students. In high school/middle school many gifted students are in honors and AP classes. I really liked this for my middle son because he was asynchronous in his abilities. He was able to take a mix of regular (math), honors (english, music, science) and AP (foreign language, social sciences) compared to a gifted program where he would have been in or out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001
I never said it did. Just that they are not who the OP was referring to.
I didn't see anything in the original post that indicates that high achieving athletes were exempt from the conversation.
BTW-In college my youngest son has had quite a bit of friction from some of his classmates at his liberal arts college. There seems to be a feeling among the student body that lacrosse players are morons who only got in the school because they play lacrosse. He never experienced this in high school
You are correct, I'venever lived in Suffolk County. However, two people said, and several agreed, that education is perceived differently in suburban NYC/the NE and (laughably) coastal CA, OR and WA, and that in the NYC area/NE lacrosse is more popular than football.
Then their experience was different from mine. Doesn't mean either of us were wrong.
Quote:
No he wasn't. Here's the OP:
I don't see anything about people with poor social skills in there.
"Gifted" usually implies being perceived, rightly or wrongly, of having poor social skills.
In any case, we will have to defer to the OP to tell us exactly what he meant and did not mean by "gifted".
He was comparing gifted students to gifted athletes, so it was clear that by "gifted students", he was referring to non-athletes. Also, the whole premise is that "gifted students", whether rightly or wrongly, are labeled as having poor social skills.
If you don't agree, then the OP will have to define exactly what he meant or didn't mean.
Quote:
How do you know? My kids had to test into the gifted program in our school system. Even though they attended a charter school they still had to have the standard gifted tests (so the charter school got the extra money for them).
My school did not have a test for the gifted and talented program, it was entirely up to the whim of our 2nd grade teacher. She chose the quiet and compliant students, mostly girls. The quiet, compliant students are clearly not who the OP was talking about. If you weren't selected in 2nd grade, there was no other way into the program.
Quote:
I'm not sure this thread is about gifted education but rather about gifted students. In high school/middle school many gifted students are in honors and AP classes. I really liked this for my middle son because he was asynchronous in his abilities. He was able to take a mix of regular (math), honors (english, music, science) and AP (foreign language, social sciences) compared to a gifted program where he would have been in or out.
Again, we will have to defer to the OP as far as what we are defining as "gifted".
Quote:
I didn't see anything in the original post that indicates that high achieving athletes were exempt from the conversation.
He was comparing gifted students vs gifted athletes, so it was very obvious that he used the term "gifted students" is limited to non-athletes.
Quote:
BTW-In college my youngest son has had quite a bit of friction from some of his classmates at his liberal arts college. There seems to be a feeling among the student body that lacrosse players are morons who only got in the school because they play lacrosse. He never experienced this in high school
Any time there is a resource where demand exceeds supply (in this case, seats at a college, and possibly scholarships), an method used to determine who gets the resource (whether academics, athletics, financial need, random lottery, etc) is going to seem unfair and arbitrary to those who lose, and people are going to resent whoever gets a resource that they don't get.
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
13,080 posts, read 7,523,914 times
Reputation: 9814
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001
My school did not have a test for the gifted and talented program, it was entirely up to the whim of our 2nd grade teacher. She chose the quiet and compliant students, mostly girls. The quiet, compliant students are clearly not who the OP was talking about. If you weren't selected in 2nd grade, there was no other way into the program.
Our 2nd grader (1992) kinda forced the issue. As I (later joined by wife) was picking DS up at his public grade school for Thanksgiving, he was the last one out, holding the teacher's hand and crying . He never cries. His second grade teacher told us that he wanted to quit school and become a dropout! Horrors-a NCLB kid and lost state dollars to the district. School willing save the situation and realize some loss state dollars and some higher expenses later. The District made an immediate offer that DS couldn't refuse; 2 grade levels, busing to other system schools that offered advanced courses, and later a range of EC's, a couple where is was the only participant. We allowed one grade skip. Worked out fine and he still graduated 1st in class.
I dated in HS a girl that skipped 2 grades (from 2nd to 4th). Very attractive girl, above my league.
Last edited by leastprime; 07-19-2018 at 12:38 AM..
He was comparing gifted students to gifted athletes, so it was clear that by "gifted students", he was referring to non-athletes. Also, the whole premise is that "gifted students", whether rightly or wrongly, are labeled as having poor social skills.
If you don't agree, then the OP will have to define exactly what he meant or didn't mean.
My school did not have a test for the gifted and talented program, it was entirely up to the whim of our 2nd grade teacher. She chose the quiet and compliant students, mostly girls. The quiet, compliant students are clearly not who the OP was talking about. If you weren't selected in 2nd grade, there was no other way into the program.
Again, we will have to defer to the OP as far as what we are defining as "gifted".
He was comparing gifted students vs gifted athletes, so it was very obvious that he used the term "gifted students" is limited to non-athletes.
Any time there is a resource where demand exceeds supply (in this case, seats at a college, and possibly scholarships), an method used to determine who gets the resource (whether academics, athletics, financial need, random lottery, etc) is going to seem unfair and arbitrary to those who lose, and people are going to resent whoever gets a resource that they don't get.
We will have to agree to disagree on what the OP meant. I don't see gifted students and gifted athletes as completely separate from one another. Nor do I agree that gifted students have to have poor social skills. My sons had friends who were athletes and friends who were not athletes. Their friends from band and their academic classmates did not have poor social skills. Students who participate in Mock Trial, Debate, Marching Band, Model UN, National History Day and other academic activities tend to be very social and well adjusted.
This set of friends includes students who are graduates of or students at Notre Dame, Columbia, Harvard, Yale, Penn, Vanderbilt, Duke, Johns Hopkins, U of FL, U of Chicago and other highly ranked colleges. They were mostly serious student, had a nice social group. They were clean cut kids but they did not have poor social skills. I don't doubt there are some gifted students who do have poor social skills but I don't agree that those two traits need to go together.
We will have to agree to disagree on what the OP meant. I don't see gifted students and gifted athletes as completely separate from one another. Nor do I agree that gifted students have to have poor social skills. My sons had friends who were athletes and friends who were not athletes. .
I've seen a wide spectrum, but even athletes with poor social skills had plenty of friends and a social life. Their athletic ability cancelled out any poor social skills they had.
There has been a problem in my city for years with professional athletes sleeping with lots of women and spreading diseases around. And a friend of mine had a minor daughter (age 17) who was taken advantage of by a pro athlete in my city recently. These athletes seem to think they can get away with anything. They've been worshipped their whole lives.
This is something I've pondered from time to time and it came up again today reading the local paper. This country in general seems to have an active dislike of those who are academically gifted. We constantly find ways to put them down, both large and small. But with athletics, it's different. As a culture we admire athletic prowess. We shower adulation and money down on them. Even at the lowest level of sport, the kid who is just a tiny bit stronger or faster gets all the attention.
I know this dichotomy is real having experienced myself and with my kids. But I can't explain it, nor even understand it. And the more I read about it, the less it makes sense. Our schools put effort into supporting and bringing the lowest performers up to the minimum, but pretty much ignore the gifted assuming they will just be fine on their own. An example from my own schooling is being berated by the teacher for reading ahead "how are you going to learn to read if you don't keep the place!!!" when I already knew how to read, as evidenced by the fact I was a couple chapters ahead while the class was stuck on one paragraph.
Sorry for the stream of consciousness, it just kind of flowed out after reading the paper this morning.
American society worships entertainment people who are to smart for there own good are marginalized and bullied relentlessly.
We will have to agree to disagree on what the OP meant. I don't see gifted students and gifted athletes as completely separate from one another. Nor do I agree that gifted students have to have poor social skills. My sons had friends who were athletes and friends who were not athletes. Their friends from band and their academic classmates did not have poor social skills. Students who participate in Mock Trial, Debate, Marching Band, Model UN, National History Day and other academic activities tend to be very social and well adjusted.
This set of friends includes students who are graduates of or students at Notre Dame, Columbia, Harvard, Yale, Penn, Vanderbilt, Duke, Johns Hopkins, U of FL, U of Chicago and other highly ranked colleges. They were mostly serious student, had a nice social group. They were clean cut kids but they did not have poor social skills. I don't doubt there are some gifted students who do have poor social skills but I don't agree that those two traits need to go together.
Personally, I think exceptionally gifted students are often out of synch socially. As I mentioned up thread somewhere, I think there is a big difference between the (relatively) larger group of very smart, hardworking kids who put in the effort to get straight As and go to top schools and the smaller group of kids who might be called highly or profoundly gifted. Not necessarily prodigies who go to college at age 12, but still, something different from "the smart kids." I was one of "the smart kids" and while I had a gifted label in school, I see a big difference between me and my son, who is somewhere in that exceptionally gifted category at least in math. It's not that I was bad at math, I was actually on the math team all though junior and high school. But nothing like he is. And yes, he has social struggles because he is so different from most kids and frankly, doesn't have as much patience and diplomacy as he needs to handle interactions, although that's improving with age and maturity. I suspect he's the kind of kid a lot of people are thinking about when they are posting in this thread.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
