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Old 10-05-2023, 12:12 PM
 
12,514 posts, read 8,731,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
To fix something, someone has to want to fix it. The U.S. education system has been sliding for a long time. Who wants to fix it? I don't see anyone or any group leading the charge. Everyone involved thinks they are doing a great job, especially school boards and school district administration. Parents are not pushing for fixes, they are responsible for much of the blame. I've been subbing a numerous school districts since I retired. The biggest problem I see is too many people just don't care. I see students who spend 2-3 classes a day sitting in the cafeteria because they don't have subs to cover for the numerous absent teachers. I see too many students who can't read, do basic arithmetic, or legibly fill out a job application without misspelled words and poor grammar.

So who is going to identify the problem and fix it? Certainly not the politicians, when is the last time you hear a politician talk about improving education? Most of the parents don't even know there is a problem because this issue has existed for several generations.
I disagree. There are many people, especially parents, who recognize the problems and want to improve public education. But as show in this very thread, they run headlong into an entrenched bureaucracy that refuses to even acknowledge there is a problem, much less consider anything needs to be done about. That intransigence has the power of massive financial resources of the education-industrial complex behind it including teachers unions and the education industry.

 
Old 10-05-2023, 12:58 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,184 posts, read 10,419,510 times
Reputation: 12473
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I disagree. There are many people, especially parents, who recognize the problems and want to improve public education. But as show in this very thread, they run headlong into an entrenched bureaucracy that refuses to even acknowledge there is a problem, much less consider anything needs to be done about. That intransigence has the power of massive financial resources of the education-industrial complex behind it including teachers unions and the education industry.
I think many parents do not recognize how poor the schools are unless your kids are in a really bad inner city school. My wife and I have three children who now have children. We tried to stay on top of what was going on in school throughout their school years. We went to back to school night and parent-teacher conferences. We looked at their homework assignments and tried to help when needed. We were much more involved than the average parent. Were we in a position to evaluate the quality of their education? Much of our opinions of the teachers and curriculum was based on hearsay and how we felt our children were being treated. We were in no position to evaluate or try to improve the education in the district. What could we possibly do? Attending school board meetings are a waste of time. They just rubber stamp a bunch of administrative details and don't even discuss education objectives. Even if we could have lobbied for changes to improve the school district, our children would've graduated before changes could take place.

An example of how little we knew about what was going on in the schools involved an English teacher that two of my children had. They didn't have much to say about her. It wasn't until I subbed for this woman numerous times that I found out she did very little and did virtually no teaching. She was also absent from school a lot and left no lesson plans. I also found out she had an alcohol problem and picked up a couple DUIs on her way home after school.
 
Old 10-05-2023, 01:13 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,495 posts, read 57,246,361 times
Reputation: 45741
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
To fix something, someone has to want to fix it. The U.S. education system has been sliding for a long time. Who wants to fix it? ...

So who is going to identify the problem and fix it? ....
It's only us who will identify and fix it. And we have (3) huge institutions with strong barriers to anyone messing with their gravy train. And a whole lot of parents using schools as daycare and deferring schools to raise their children.
  • Employers and higher education could be more succinct in acknowledging.. "Don't toss your failures on us!"
  • Students could feel more empowered to demand an education that equips them to serve their communities, higher ed, military, employers.
  • Parents could pull their heads out of their distractions and take a good look at their children. (and listen / perceive how they are being equipped intellctually and emotionally.)
  • Government could establish national strategies for economic, educational, and environmental excellence. (longer than a 2-4 yr vision to hold onto their own gravy train. )
We (as a nation) could recognize we are now only (1) element of a global economy. Contribute, compete, LEAD... or die.

It's only us who will identify and fix it.

You will note the wealth of great suggestions here ("That will never work! We've* tried EVERYTHING!")
* professionally trained and career 'educators' (?)
 
Old 10-05-2023, 01:24 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,115 posts, read 16,859,513 times
Reputation: 33884
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
To fix something, someone has to want to fix it. The U.S. education system has been sliding for a long time. Who wants to fix it? I don't see anyone or any group leading the charge. Everyone involved thinks they are doing a great job, especially school boards and school district administration. Parents are not pushing for fixes, they are responsible for much of the blame. I've been subbing a numerous school districts since I retired. The biggest problem I see is too many people just don't care. I see students who spend 2-3 classes a day sitting in the cafeteria because they don't have subs to cover for the numerous absent teachers. I see too many students who can't read, do basic arithmetic, or legibly fill out a job application without misspelled words and poor grammar.

So who is going to identify the problem and fix it? Certainly not the politicians, when is the last time you hear a politician talk about improving education? Most of the parents don't even know there is a problem because this issue has existed for several generations.
No one will fix it as no one in government thinks there is a problem.
If the kids are failing it's because of anything and everything except the curriculum.
Food, money, the Civil War, etc.

So parents who see this pull their kids and put them in private/charter schools.
Over 1 million kids never came back to public schools. That should have been a strong message to the Dept of Education but it seemed to have fallen on deaf ears.
 
Old 10-05-2023, 01:32 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
44,725 posts, read 59,606,344 times
Reputation: 60249
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
No one will fix it as no one in government thinks there is a problem.
If the kids are failing it's because of anything and everything except the curriculum.
Food, money, the Civil War, etc.

So parents who see this pull their kids and put them in private/charter schools.
Over 1 million kids never came back to public schools. That should have been a strong message to the Dept of Education but it seemed to have fallen on deaf ears.
How many of those million went to private schools (charter enrollment would count as returning in most states since they're generally public schools set up as privates) or home teaching? My question is also, this is rhetorical, of those being "home schooled" are just out of school with their parents' connivance.

I ask because there are at least a dozen, from Elementary up to High School, on the couple very small streets around me who are being "home schooled" but really not. Unless being out riding bikes and farting around from dawn to dusk counts.
 
Old 10-05-2023, 01:38 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,115 posts, read 16,859,513 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
How many of those million went to private schools (charter enrollment would count as returning in most states since they're generally public schools set up as privates) or home teaching? My question is also, this is rhetorical, of those being "home schooled" are just out of school with their parents' connivance.

I ask because there are at least a dozen, from Elementary up to High School, on the couple very small streets around me who are being "home schooled" but really not. Unless being out riding bikes and farting around from dawn to dusk counts.
I don't recall the numbers but it's on a government website somewhere.
I have been reading about some school districts consolidating and shutting down schools because of all those missing kids. Well in one district the parents got outraged and stormed the school board meeting.
The administration bent the knee and kept all the schools open...two of which are less than 1/2 full.
And now that property tax bills are going out there's new outrage over the increase in the ISD portion of the tax.

You can't win. You just can't win.
 
Old 10-05-2023, 01:58 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,147 posts, read 28,189,169 times
Reputation: 24661
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
To fix something, someone has to want to fix it. The U.S. education system has been sliding for a long time. Who wants to fix it? I don't see anyone or any group leading the charge.
The better question is - Why should we try to fix it at all?

Haven’t the last 60 years proven conclusively that some people are unable to be successful in academic pursuits no matter what is tried to help them?

Some people will always have low test scores, and cannot possibly be college material.

We need to stop being irrational and stop having unrealistic expectations about this.

There will always be economic class differences in the United States and we will always have people who are much better suited for menial jobs and manual labor than they are for intellectual pursuits. Life is like that.
 
Old 10-05-2023, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
49,890 posts, read 23,631,391 times
Reputation: 32384
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
The better question is - Why should we try to fix it at all?

Haven’t the last 60 years proven conclusively that some people are unable to be successful in academic pursuits no matter what is tried to help them?

Some people will always have low test scores, and cannot possibly be college material.

We need to stop being irrational and stop having unrealistic expectations about this.

There will always be economic class differences in the United States and we will always have people who are much better suited for menial jobs and manual labor than they are for intellectual pursuits. Life is like that.
Individual differences...okay...no problem.

Labeling and treating people as belonging in a class is a big problem.
 
Old 10-05-2023, 03:40 PM
 
3,219 posts, read 3,495,581 times
Reputation: 3544
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
The better question is - Why should we try to fix it at all?

Haven’t the last 60 years proven conclusively that some people are unable to be successful in academic pursuits no matter what is tried to help them?

Some people will always have low test scores, and cannot possibly be college material.

We need to stop being irrational and stop having unrealistic expectations about this.

There will always be economic class differences in the United States and we will always have people who are much better suited for menial jobs and manual labor than they are for intellectual pursuits. Life is like that.
I agree, that mindset is what needs to change. Working a job which doesn't require a college degree isn't an automatic trip to the poorhouse. There is money to be made in the skilled trades, especially if you are able to hang out your own shingle. Forcing someone who either doesn't have the aptitude or interest to read the classics/master particle physics to go down the university path is wasting everyone's time/effort/energy. There are lots of other paths that they can go down. My HVAC guy, who has been a sole proprietor for the last 15-20 years, is making a killing. Works 4 days a week, spends the weekend on his boat at his beach house. [And this is after having to deal with the financial repercussions of a nasty divorce ~5 years ago.]
 
Old 10-05-2023, 03:43 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
41,115 posts, read 16,859,513 times
Reputation: 33884
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
The better question is - Why should we try to fix it at all?

Haven’t the last 60 years proven conclusively that some people are unable to be successful in academic pursuits no matter what is tried to help them?

Some people will always have low test scores, and cannot possibly be college material.

We need to stop being irrational and stop having unrealistic expectations about this.

There will always be economic class differences in the United States and we will always have people who are much better suited for menial jobs and manual labor than they are for intellectual pursuits. Life is like that.
Depends on what the goal is. If it's "absolute equality" then it doesn't matter whether they fail or not.
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