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Madoff is in JAIL cuz his scheme of things is NOT LEGALIZED and Bain's practices are LEGALIZED.
The outcome of both the schemes is the same. Only the victims are different. In one case they are the investors, in other the companies in which that money is invested....
Public employee unions and public universities have NO problem with Bain's business practices. In fact, they HEAVILY invest in Bain.
I suggested withdraw from Bain. I never suggested SCRAP union pensions, and raise public universities' tuition.
DO NOT TRY to put YOUR words in my statements...
Where do you think the public employee union pension funds get the money to PAY the pensions? From Bain's profits. That's WHY they've invested in Bain. Withdraw from Bain? Fine. That means NO PENSIONS or SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED pensions. Sound good to you?
Yes - and it's totally and completely LEGALIZED THEFT. These are people are CRIMINALS and should be forced to pay back what they STOLE.
Just like you or I going out and maxing out all our CC lines of credit. Right now I've got $100k I don't use. Waiting a while, and then filing bankruptcy. Meanwhile, I've still got the $100k hidden around somewhere. It's easy to do, because most bankruptcy trustees don't check on where the money went, especially for the smaller fry, like us. We're all just too stupid and naive to do something that DISHONEST.
Not the big boys - loading up with debt (other people's money), paying yourselves, and then declaring bankruptcy is SMART.
See - that's what separates these titans from the rest of us.
They have no CONSCIENCE.
Meanwhile, we're stupid and poor. We need to learn from our masters.
So do you have proof that Bain was borrowing money to pay dividends to their shareholders? As for checking where the money went, you are crazy if you think trustees with the bankruptcy court do not check where the money is going when a corporation files bankruptcy, and they do not just get to make the debts disappear, they go in chapter 11 which means the courts have control over their money.
In fact what you accuse Romney doing with Bain capital they lay out very well in the article, except they screwed up as even the acknowledge did not really become popular until 2003 and pretty much ended in 2007, all of which Romney was long gone from Bain. Of course they did not link a single company that Bain was associated with as actually participating in this activity, instead they use a totally different company as their example while insinuating that Romney may have participated.
As for the process you & the article describe it only works on a short term basis, reality is if you get a rep for borrowing money in companies and then going bankrupt, lenders stop lending you money. When you are borrowing tens of millions of dollars then you have limited options in regards to lenders. Part of getting a large commercial loan is listing every major shareholder and their stake in the company, if you are a major shareholder that likes to take companies bankrupt guess what happens?
Long term Bain may have been borrowing the money to return their initial investment, but to do that they have to increase the revenue and income enough to justify a higher value on their company, allowing them to borrow more money. Lenders do not and have never lent money to someone that does not have a way to pay back that money, just like they will never lend 10s of millions of dollars to a corporation without the revenue and income stream to pay back that money.
I also love the crack about how the shareholders only have to pay capital gains tax on the distributions, do they not realize that the money is already taxed at a corporate level? Short term the companies may save some money, but every month they pay a payment to that bank, the principle is considered profit and the last I checked the corporate tax rate was 35% for just the federal government, meaning each shareholder of a company paying dividends is paying 50% of the profits to the federal government for their investment.
So do you have proof that Bain was borrowing money to pay dividends to their shareholders? As for checking where the money went, you are crazy if you think trustees with the bankruptcy court do not check where the money is going when a corporation files bankruptcy, and they do not just get to make the debts disappear, they go in chapter 11 which means the courts have control over their money.
Personally it sounds to me like you read the same article I did in the New Yorker but cannot see the obvious missing links.
It helps if you read the thread instead of making assumptions about what I did or did not read:
As, for the rest of your naive and uninformed comments, continue to believe that all is ethical and honest in the high-stakes world of leveraged acquisitions. I worked for a firm that did these all day, every day. I also have bridge to nowhere for sale - best deal on the planet.
As, for the rest of your naive and uninformed comments, continue to believe that all is ethical and honest in the high-stakes world of leveraged acquisitions. I worked for a firm that did these all day, every day. I also have bridge to nowhere for sale - best deal on the planet.
Romney and Bain are thieves. Plain and simple.
That link shows how they borrowed money to BUY MORE ASSETS.. Same thing EVERYONE IN AMERICA DOES..
Do you own a home? Do you own a car? Either one of those have a loan against them?
SAME THING.
Did you STEAL from the seller to buy those assets? Was it unethical to take out a loan to buy these items? Your clearly the one nieve and uninformed.
As, for the rest of your naive and uninformed comments, continue to believe that all is ethical and honest in the high-stakes world of leveraged acquisitions. I worked for a firm that did these all day, every day. I also have bridge to nowhere for sale - best deal on the planet.
Romney and Bain are thieves. Plain and simple.
Once again where did Bain steal any money? You call me naive and then say that you have worked in the field, so does that make you a thief or an accomplice? After all you are sure that Romney was a theif and you participated in a similar company.
A company borrowing money and going bankrupt is not illegal, and is not necessarily dishonest especially when the bankruptcies happened 5-10 years later. Hell truth is if borrowing the max amount of money you can against something you bought years ago, and then going bankrupt or losing the property back in foreclosure is dishonest or unethical then what exactly does that say about the 10s of millions of people who did just that with their real estate, and instead of the lenders taking the hit, the taxpayers are the ones as a group that bailed them out as they got to be the victims?
Now I do not know you or anything about you, but I know many liberals who scream that those poor homeowners were taken advantage of after they spent all that money they got from refinancing and kept the money tax free, so how is Bain Capital any different? they borrowed the max they could, years later some of those companies went bankrupt due to changes in the economy, so under that homeowner victim line of thinking, does that not make Bain capital a victim as well?
This sums up the R Money fool some of love and act like his is a saint he is a greedy SOB who makes all his money by firing everyone when he buys out small to mid size companies
This sums up the R Money fool some of love and act like his is a saint he is a greedy SOB who makes all his money by firing everyone when he buys out small to mid size companies
How many jobs was Obama responsible for again before he became President? Ooh you want to ignore that, well find then, how many jobs did he use taxpayer money for, in order to ship off shore?
R Money Killed K B Toys 15,000 jobs were killed you can not make this stuff way more than Obama have ever killed
um, KB Toys was sold to Toys R Us, which employs 70k-120K people and has 14B a year in sales, also owned by Bain
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