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Glitch ... we're both Americans and so in that sense we are both in this together. In times of disagreement, I find it useful to find things we have in common rather than the differences. I think that what we have in common is that we want, as a minimum, is for Americans to be safe, free, and have a good standard of living. I think we probably disagree about how to best achieve this. I personally agree with Ron Paul that our Foreign and Domestic Policies are acting against these goals. Our meddling in foreign countries is making Americans less safe. Many of us believe that in the name of securing us from the enemies, that we have created with our Foreign Policy, we are having to give up our liberties. Then having to pay for Foreign Policy we are destroying our standard of living.
I do not hate this country, I love this country. I do not blame this country I blame the leaders who have, in my opinion, worked contrary to our goals.
I'm sorry, but when we are attacked and Americans are killed my first reaction is not to seek justification for the killers and blame America like you. I couldn't care less what motivated the attackers. If you move into a new neighborhood and your next door neighbor punches you in the nose, do you think "he probably didn't like me moving here so it must be my fault, so I better move again?" No, you punch them back - hard. Nothing we do justifies killing innocent Americans. Running away like cowards only makes the US appear more weak and invites more American deaths. They can love us, hate us, or ignore us, I don't care. But if they attack us, for whatever reason, they must be wiped from the face of the planet.
You claim to love this country, yet you continually try to justify the slaughter of innocent Americans. That is loathing, not love. Instead of eliminating those who attack us and kill innocent Americans, you want to run away and invite even more American deaths. That kind of cowardice I can not abide.
I'm sorry, but when we are attacked and Americans are killed my first reaction is not to seek justification for the killers and blame America like you. I couldn't care less what motivated the attackers. If you move into a new neighborhood and your next door neighbor punches you in the nose, do you think "he probably didn't like me moving here so it must be my fault, so I better move again?" No, you punch them back - hard. Nothing we do justifies killing innocent Americans. Running away like cowards only makes the US appear more weak and invites more American deaths. They can love us, hate us, or ignore us, I don't care. But if they attack us, for whatever reason, they must be wiped from the face of the planet.
You claim to love this country, yet you continually try to justify the slaughter of innocent Americans. That is loathing, not love. Instead of eliminating those who attack us and kill innocent Americans, you want to run away and invite even more American deaths. That kind of cowardice I can not abide.
I don't see it as justifing killing of Americans. Yes when we are attacked we must fight back. I think the point trying to be made is why do we feel the need to attack and kill. Now you cannot state that every attack by us throughout history has been in retaliation of a country attacking us. It isn't running away it is seeing that our policies are not working and changing the way we go about things. I do care why they attack and kill us and no it is never justified, but are we always? Or do we do what we think will benefit us despite what others ( being other countries people) want. How would we feel if another country came over here forcefully and tried to change how we lived and what we did. We need to know who we deal with, the Middle East is extremely violent, we need to realize this and act accordingly. More war brings more death on both sides.
Instead of eliminating those who attack us and kill innocent Americans, you want to run away and invite even more American deaths.
If you are referring to the Americans killed on 9-11, then Iraq had nothing to do with that. So could you clarify to which innocent Americans are you referring? And, again, I do not justify the death of anyone. That is just plain wrong, to say the least. I, and for that matter Ron Paul, believe in a strong defense. So please, let me (us) know who are the innocent Americans to whom you are referring so we can at least frame the discussion.
[I mean talking to family in Europe, we are a laughing stock there, not only for immigration issues but for our constant policing. -------------------------------------------------------------
At lease we agree on something.
Let's not kid ourselves about countries like Germany, the UK, Russia, China, and France. Talking about rapist countries. It is sad that the US descended to their level. Instead of being the shining light on the hill, or what Ron Paul refers to as "setting an example to the rest of the world", this country was taken over by the same rapist people who run these other countries. I believe in Ron Paul's strategy of setting a good example, trading with those who want to trade with us, and defending ourselves when attacked.
We attacked (or rather started to attack) those who killed innocent Americans on 9-11, but have mismanaged that war. Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. Hence my question? Why are we in Iraq?
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,330 posts, read 54,428,613 times
Reputation: 40736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch
I'm sorry, but when we are attacked and Americans are killed my first reaction is not to seek justification for the killers and blame America like you. I couldn't care less what motivated the attackers. If you move into a new neighborhood and your next door neighbor punches you in the nose, do you think "he probably didn't like me moving here so it must be my fault, so I better move again?" No, you punch them back - hard. Nothing we do justifies killing innocent Americans. Running away like cowards only makes the US appear more weak and invites more American deaths. They can love us, hate us, or ignore us, I don't care. But if they attack us, for whatever reason, they must be wiped from the face of the planet.
You claim to love this country, yet you continually try to justify the slaughter of innocent Americans. That is loathing, not love. Instead of eliminating those who attack us and kill innocent Americans, you want to run away and invite even more American deaths. That kind of cowardice I can not abide.
And when we're not attacked by a nation-state we should invade/occupy one not involved in the attack because it's more convenient than actually tracking down and dealing with those responsible for the attack?
I don't see it as justifing killing of Americans. Yes when we are attacked we must fight back. I think the point trying to be made is why do we feel the need to attack and kill. Now you cannot state that every attack by us throughout history has been in retaliation of a country attacking us. It isn't running away it is seeing that our policies are not working and changing the way we go about things. I do care why they attack and kill us and no it is never justified, but are we always? Or do we do what we think will benefit us despite what others ( being other countries people) want. How would we feel if another country came over here forcefully and tried to change how we lived and what we did. We need to know who we deal with, the Middle East is extremely violent, we need to realize this and act accordingly. More war brings more death on both sides.
You may not see it as justifying the killing of Americans, but that is exactly what it is when you say things like "they attacked us because we did this or that..."
Except for WW I, I can recall no time in US history were the US attacked another nation who did not declare war against us first, or attack us first. In WW I we were not attacked, we got involved in response to treaty obligations. When we are attacked first, we are always justified in reducing their nation to rubble.
The US does what is in the best interest of the US, not what other nations think we should do. The only time the US sends troops to another nation, that we aren't invading, is when we are invited to do so by that government and it is in the best interests of the US. Just like in here in the US we have foreign troops (English, German, Dutch, and Canadian) in the US at the invitation of the US government. I do not feel threatened by those foreign troops in the US.
You may not see it as justifying the killing of Americans, but that is exactly what it is when you say things like "they attacked us because we did this or that..."
Except for WW I, I can recall no time in US history were the US attacked another nation who did not declare war against us first, or attack us first. In WW I we were not attacked, we got involved in response to treaty obligations. When we are attacked first, we are always justified in reducing their nation to rubble.
The US does what is in the best interest of the US, not what other nations think we should do. The only time the US sends troops to another nation, that we aren't invading, is when we are invited to do so by that government and it is in the best interests of the US. Just like in here in the US we have foreign troops (English, German, Dutch, and Canadian) in the US at the invitation of the US government. I do not feel threatened by those foreign troops in the US.
I didn't say why they attacked us, for I don't know the root cause. If it is as you say, we go when we are invited and we have bases in 136 other countries because they asked us to and we only invade when we are protecting ourselves, then I cannot imagine why all the world would hate us and look down upon us. Again I am curious and I may need to ask my step dad and uncle since they were there, why we were in Vietnam and Korea. I understand the reasoning in first two wars since my dads family escaped Germany in 1939. And I am also wondering about this war with Iraq, did Iraq commit 9/11 because I keep hearing they didnt.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,330 posts, read 54,428,613 times
Reputation: 40736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch
Except for WW I, I can recall no time in US history were the US attacked another nation who did not declare war against us first, or attack us first. In WW I we were not attacked, we got involved in response to treaty obligations. When we are attacked first, we are always justified in reducing their nation to rubble. .
Vietnam ring a bell?
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