Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
We have a pretty good idea what Hillary is gonna do. I might agree only 70% of the time with her. But with Trump we have no idea.
Mexicans...
1. NJ has the largest amount of illegals. NY, NJ, CA.... Do we really have a problem here ?
2. I have not hired an illegal in a awhile. $50 for a day of hard manual labor ? Is that what it costs? for the most part illegals contribute to our economy. So I am leaning towards Obama's idea. See a citizen of US can get social benefits and will not do those jobs that illegals do....
We have a pretty good idea what Hillary is gonna do. I might agree only 70% of the time with her. But with Trump we have no idea.
Mexicans...
1. NJ has the largest amount of illegals. NY, NJ, CA.... Do we really have a problem here ?
2. I have not hired an illegal in a awhile. $50 for a day of hard manual labor ? Is that what it costs? for the most part illegals contribute to our economy. So I am leaning towards Obama's idea. See a citizen of US can get social benefits and will not do those jobs that illegals do....
Anyways
Here is my problem with illegal immigration, and I really don't have a problem with them on an individual level, but we have allowed enough illegal immigrants to become citizens that they have become their own voting block. In 1986, Reagan, who was otherwise a decent president, gave amnesty to 3 million, monolithic illegal immigrants, who then multiplied and formed a voting block that caused our politicians to be even more lenient on MORE illegal immigrants.
Think about how quickly they went from being a small minority to the largest minority. In my lifetime, hiispanics went from being under 5% of the population! to 17% of the population. And I love Mexican people, culture, and especially food, but many of them support mass immigration from Mexico, for obvious reasons. Now we have 10 million illegal immigrants and most of our politicians on both sides of the aisle, want to give THEM amnesty.
If we do that, when THEY multiply and form a giant voting block, then we end up with no more border at all. They will be such a large voting block, that nothing will be able to stop them from setting the government policies that they want in place. It will lead to completely open borders. It will lead to a takeover, without a single shot being fired. The US will have completely lost it's sovereignty.
If they didn't cost us anything, I wouldn't even care. But most of them are poor, and skilled at jobs that couldn't possibly cover their cost. Nationally, it costs roughly $10k per year to educate 1 child. In NJ,it hits us even harder, especially in the poor areas, it costs over $20k per year. So a family of 5 illegal immigrants in Newark are costing us $60k in education. (Actually a lot more in Newark). They don't pay income tax, but even if they did, they don't usually have the kind of jobs that would collect anywhere in the same universe as that.
And you haven't even gotten into what they are costing the health care system. And if you make them legal, they are eligible for social security, welfare, food stamps, obamacare, etc.
You can't take such a huge block of people from a 3rd world country all at once like that. The numbers just don't add up. It would be an economic disaster. And I guarantee you, if you make them citizens, there will be no immigration laws at all in 30 years, and the income disparity we are seeing now will be nothing by comparison.
And I'm not asking you to take my word for it. I'm just asking you to look at history between 1986 and now, and then try to tell me why things will be different this time, if we follow the same course we followed back then.
There is only one candidate who has made this the cornerstone of their platform. One candidate that is not pandering to this large voting block while there is still time to stop it from dominating.
Here is my problem with illegal immigration, and I really don't have a problem with them on an individual level, but we have allowed enough illegal immigrants to become citizens that they have become their own voting block. In 1986, Reagan, who was otherwise a decent president, gave amnesty to 3 million, monolithic illegal immigrants, who then multiplied and formed a voting block that caused our politicians to be even more lenient on MORE illegal immigrants.
Think about how quickly they went from being a small minority to the largest minority. In my lifetime, hiispanics went from being under 5% of the population! to 17% of the population. And I love Mexican people, culture, and especially food, but many of them support mass immigration from Mexico, for obvious reasons. Now we have 10 million illegal immigrants and most of our politicians on both sides of the aisle, want to give THEM amnesty.
If we do that, when THEY multiply and form a giant voting block, then we end up with no more border at all. They will be such a large voting block, that nothing will be able to stop them from setting the government policies that they want in place. It will lead to completely open borders. It will lead to a takeover, without a single shot being fired. The US will have completely lost it's sovereignty.
If they didn't cost us anything, I wouldn't even care. But most of them are poor, and skilled at jobs that couldn't possibly cover their cost. Nationally, it costs roughly $10k per year to educate 1 child. In NJ,it hits us even harder, especially in the poor areas, it costs over $20k per year. So a family of 5 illegal immigrants in Newark are costing us $60k in education. (Actually a lot more in Newark). They don't pay income tax, but even if they did, they don't usually have the kind of jobs that would collect anywhere in the same universe as that.
And you haven't even gotten into what they are costing the health care system. And if you make them legal, they are eligible for social security, welfare, food stamps, obamacare, etc.
You can't take such a huge block of people from a 3rd world country all at once like that. The numbers just don't add up. It would be an economic disaster. And I guarantee you, if you make them citizens, there will be no immigration laws at all in 30 years, and the income disparity we are seeing now will be nothing by comparison.
And I'm not asking you to take my word for it. I'm just asking you to look at history between 1986 and now, and then try to tell me why things will be different this time, if we follow the same course we followed back then.
There is only one candidate who has made this the cornerstone of their platform. One candidate that is not pandering to this large voting block while there is still time to stop it from dominating.
HI AnesthesiaMD,
I was scrolling to another forum when I saw your Username and the topic. You may not remember, but I enjoyed reading your well thought out posts as the female anesthesiologist in VA was discussed.
You raise interesting points. Rubio has stated Green Cards not citizenship for the current illegals in the U.S. I'm aware it would require a contested or open convention for Rubio to continue further. I don't fear that.
More importantly, are you okay with all of Trump's changing policies, his misogyny, bullying and more? How about the violence at his rallies?
I do realize one issue can make a person support a candidate and those reasons are different for each person. I respect different people selecting different issues and I agree with many costs you've highlighted above. Where I respectfully differ with you is I never see Trump offer specifics of his policies. I also never hear him take responsibility for anything in the campaign. He has such a high negatives score.
Finally, since I check Real Clear Politics daily, Trump doesn't beat Hillary. I'm aware he's said he hasn't even started. Neither has she. Additionally, I read a report that he will have to raise major funds for the general election. His available cash nor wealth isn't what he claims. I don't know how many GOP donors will back him.
I'm interested in your thoughts about my comments/questions. Thanks
I hesitate to jump in here as I am pretty undecided. I happen to be female, well educated, employed........ and I really liked Dr Ben Carson. I also, believe it or not, like Bernie.
I did like Rubio but he did himself in. I still kind of like Kasich. I find Cruz, although pretty well spoken and intelligent to have negative charisma. As far as Trump goes, I like him. I am put off with the negativity but to be honest, I think he is the reaction to Obama and he makes sense mostly .
As far as the violence at his rallies- at least the garbage yesterday - that was a set up. Should he or someone else set the same garbage up at Hillary's meager gatherings?
I can tell you that pretty much anyone against Hillary, Hillary would not get my vote.
Here is my problem with illegal immigration, and I really don't have a problem with them on an individual level, but we have allowed enough illegal immigrants to become citizens that they have become their own voting block. In 1986, Reagan, who was otherwise a decent president, gave amnesty to 3 million, monolithic illegal immigrants, who then multiplied and formed a voting block that caused our politicians to be even more lenient on MORE illegal immigrants.
Think about how quickly they went from being a small minority to the largest minority. In my lifetime, hiispanics went from being under 5% of the population! to 17% of the population. And I love Mexican people, culture, and especially food, but many of them support mass immigration from Mexico, for obvious reasons. Now we have 10 million illegal immigrants and most of our politicians on both sides of the aisle, want to give THEM amnesty.
If we do that, when THEY multiply and form a giant voting block, then we end up with no more border at all. They will be such a large voting block, that nothing will be able to stop them from setting the government policies that they want in place. It will lead to completely open borders. It will lead to a takeover, without a single shot being fired. The US will have completely lost it's sovereignty.
If they didn't cost us anything, I wouldn't even care. But most of them are poor, and skilled at jobs that couldn't possibly cover their cost. Nationally, it costs roughly $10k per year to educate 1 child. In NJ,it hits us even harder, especially in the poor areas, it costs over $20k per year. So a family of 5 illegal immigrants in Newark are costing us $60k in education. (Actually a lot more in Newark). They don't pay income tax, but even if they did, they don't usually have the kind of jobs that would collect anywhere in the same universe as that.
And you haven't even gotten into what they are costing the health care system. And if you make them legal, they are eligible for social security, welfare, food stamps, obamacare, etc.
You can't take such a huge block of people from a 3rd world country all at once like that. The numbers just don't add up. It would be an economic disaster. And I guarantee you, if you make them citizens, there will be no immigration laws at all in 30 years, and the income disparity we are seeing now will be nothing by comparison.
And I'm not asking you to take my word for it. I'm just asking you to look at history between 1986 and now, and then try to tell me why things will be different this time, if we follow the same course we followed back then.
There is only one candidate who has made this the cornerstone of their platform. One candidate that is not pandering to this large voting block while there is still time to stop it from dominating.
yahh, what he said. I am seeing from my hookups ova in Brooklyn, it takes them a while to get citizenship and then, once naturalized there is no partisanship. Some vote liberal and some for da rednecks...
Comparing to other states we have a rather large population of Muslims and Illegals. My grandparents lived through WW2 and killed them Nazis only to see Stalin's repressions. When the man with his secret police comes for your neighbors.... lol it would take a mighty big army to come for my neighbors though...
Right now they are kinda like slaves in biblical terms. You can report them to da Migra if they don't please you. I mean they are completely defenseless. Eligibility for SS comes from contributing into the system, if you never paid into SS you will not be eligible, unless you mean retirement. Welfare, food stamps and obamacare is basic human rights. I mean most basic medical treatment, $100 a month in terms of food (I spend $150 a week on myself, smoked salmon is major food group welfare.. seriously though people do not come to da US to sit on da welfare and collect food stamps.
Obama might be really bad at Foreign relations, but domestically sometimes I disagree with his execution of idea's that I do support and find to be very important for us here....
Also, before people use that argument "they broke the law" we need to educate them Mexicans in US laws, I don't think they know. So free ESL classes that can help explain the basics of US legal system among other things....
I was scrolling to another forum when I saw your Username and the topic. You may not remember, but I enjoyed reading your well thought out posts as the female anesthesiologist in VA was discussed.
You raise interesting points. Rubio has stated Green Cards not citizenship for the current illegals in the U.S. I'm aware it would require a contested or open convention for Rubio to continue further. I don't fear that.
More importantly, are you okay with all of Trump's changing policies, his misogyny, bullying and more? How about the violence at his rallies?
I do realize one issue can make a person support a candidate and those reasons are different for each person. I respect different people selecting different issues and I agree with many costs you've highlighted above. Where I respectfully differ with you is I never see Trump offer specifics of his policies. I also never hear him take responsibility for anything in the campaign. He has such a high negatives score.
Finally, since I check Real Clear Politics daily, Trump doesn't beat Hillary. I'm aware he's said he hasn't even started. Neither has she. Additionally, I read a report that he will have to raise major funds for the general election. His available cash nor wealth isn't what he claims. I don't know how many GOP donors will back him.
I'm interested in your thoughts about my comments/questions. Thanks
MSR
Hi, how are you? I'll try to answer my as much as I can.
Rubio's green cards, and his history in the gang of 8 and pathway to citizenship is a problem, for all the reasons I stated above. A green card is a pathway to citizenship.
And it doesn't stop the influx of even more illegal immigrants over the border. In fact, it encourages it. Not once, but twice will we have said to poor Mexicans, "Come to America illegally. You will get free education for your children, free healthcare, we will give you drivers licenses, and we will do nothing to send you back. You can live a much nicer life here, and eventually, we will reward you with citizenship."
If I was a poor Mexican, I would come here illegally too. Nothing to lose and everything to gain.
I have a problem with a contested convention because they are telling the voters that their votes don't matter. I think whichever candidate gets the most votes should be the candidate. Otherwise it cheapens our democracy. It makes us seem like some banana republic that has fake elections to appease the masses, while the ruling class is in some back room stuffing ballot boxes. I know the rules allow it, but let's not forget who makes the rules. The very same people who are choosing our candidate for us instead of allowing us to choose our own candidate.
All the stuff you mentioned surrounding Trump and his campaign? I don't know. It is a double edged sword. Of course I wish he was more toned down, but at the same time, if he was more toned down, he probably wouldn't even be an option this late in the game. A lot of the policy stuff I would expect from anyone who is not a career politician. Like any good CEO, I'm sure he will take the advice of the experts and delegate appropriately. I think he could be a great president, and if not, our country has survived worse. I don't like the mysogyny, but I don't think he is, in the truest sense of the word. I think he is a mysogynist like Clinton was a mysogynist. Or like JFK was a mysogynist. Though hopefully he doesn't have affairs like those guys did. But they were two of our better presidents in spite of it.
He is down against Hillary now. A year ago his numbers were at the very bottom if the list of 17 candidates. Back then, if you said he was going to be the front runner in the Republican Party, people would have laughed you out of the room. He has come a much farther distance between then and now than he has to go to have numbers higher than Hillary 9 months from now.
I hesitate to jump in here as I am pretty undecided. I happen to be female, well educated, employed........ and I really liked Dr Ben Carson. I also, believe it or not, like Bernie.
I did like Rubio but he did himself in. I still kind of like Kasich. I find Cruz, although pretty well spoken and intelligent to have negative charisma. As far as Trump goes, I like him. I am put off with the negativity but to be honest, I think he is the reaction to Obama and he makes sense mostly .
As far as the violence at his rallies- at least the garbage yesterday - that was a set up. Should he or someone else set the same garbage up at Hillary's meager gatherings?
I can tell you that pretty much anyone against Hillary, Hillary would not get my vote.
I couldn't agree more. I would vote for anyone, or even any living thing, including several plant species, over the Vapid Biddy.
And anyone who doesn't think the Vapid Biddy is in some trouble is just not paying attention. When an epithelially challenged, encrusted, 1050 year old disheveled malodorous Trotskyite fossil like Bernie Sanders can mount a challenge to VBid, and do it by appealing mostly to brain-dead millennials, then someone better consider canceling the monogrammed towels that she pre-ordered to make Bill's guests uncomfortable as they step out of the shower in the Lincoln Bathroom.
Some of the comments point out quite clearly who supports Donald Trump. They are, yes, the "poorly educated", and also the far right extremists who believe that democrats seek to "destroy everything that made us great by eliminating freedom, individual rights, and private property rights." Really?
Here's something, Democrats are people just like you. We have different opinions on some things but they are just opinions. Your opinions have the same value and validity as mine. We have problems when people
vilify people who are different and who believe they posses the one true way - true believers.
In my life I've seen the left as well as the right be wrong about the correct course we should take and that's the way it goes, the pendulum swings both ways.
I think it funny when I hear the post postmortems of certain Republicans that think the reason they lost is their candidate wasn't far right enough. My guess is this next election will put that idea to rest.
Aloha
My opinion doesn't come with a side of violence.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
