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The difference being that Asturias was not Spain, but just one of several parts of the peninsula at a time when neither Portugal nor Spain as such were in existence, yet. So it doesn't make sense to suggest the old Asturias (which was much bigger than the tiny Asturias of today) was Spain, Spain has always been just a sum of rather different smaller units, not unlike Switzerland or Belgium. And there has never been any reason why Portugal would be part of Spain because it never split from Spain in the first place.
The county of Portugal was part of the kingdom of Leon, not Asturias. They never split but gained increased autonomy from whatever was left of Christiandom and León, the inheritors of Hispania.
It was just the same that what happened to every kingdom at that time. Christian Kingdoms in the north and the Carolingian empire had to delegate authority to new kingdoms.
In fact, they can be considered more Castilian and Spanish than Aragon and Catalonia, or even Navarre.
The county of Portugal was part of the kingdom of Leon, not Asturias. They never split but gained increased autonomy from whatever was left of Christiandom and León, the inheritors of Hispania.
It was just the same that what happened to every kingdom at that time. Christian Kingdoms in the north and the Carolingian empire had to delegate authority to new kingdoms.
In fact, they can be considered more Castilian and Spanish than Aragon and Catalonia, or even Navarre.
How do you figure that in the ninth century Portugal received Galicians and Asturians during the repopulation not Castilians to boost the Chrisitan population and Flemings and Burgundians in the thriteenth century.
That organization is the most representative in the US.
Hispanic, as used by non-educated Americans, means "some sort of Mexican".
Just like saying that Bavarians are not "Germanic".
Wikipedia is not a very reliable source.
American politicians use the strangest definitions, not to mention the American Census Bureau.
It is not about educated vs non-educated, it is about context. In a historical context, i.e. when talking about the Roman empire, Hispanic may include Portugal. But in other contexts, for instance a linguistic or cultural one, Hispanic excludes Portugal.
Bavaria is not a good analogy. Bavarian is a German dialect, but Portuguese is not a Spanish dialect. Bavaria is part of Germany, but Portugal is not part of Spain. There was a brief Iberian Union (note, not Hispanic Union) for a mere 60 years, but that was long after Portugal was founded. It was just a formal union for monarchic reasons, but in every other way Portugal remained independent and when the union ended, Portugal carried on as if nothing had happened. Switching back and forth between kingdoms was common practice back then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pampliment
They are Hispanic-American or Iberian-American or "Latin-American" as coined by Napoleon III.
Hyphenated Americans usually applies to ethnic groups living in the US. Iberian-Americans would indeed include people of Portuguese ancestry, not so Hispanic-Americans. Latin Americans is the only term that applies to people outside the US as well, and it does not include Portuguese people, but Brazilians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pampliment
The county of Portugal was part of the kingdom of Leon, not Asturias. They never split but gained increased autonomy from whatever was left of Christiandom and León, the inheritors of Hispania.
It was just the same that what happened to every kingdom at that time. Christian Kingdoms in the north and the Carolingian empire had to delegate authority to new kingdoms.
In fact, they can be considered more Castilian and Spanish than Aragon and Catalonia, or even Navarre.
Portugal has always had close ties with Galicia, which also did not like Asturias/Leon. Galicia and Portugal/Lusitania have always been different from Asturias/Leon.
Since there was no Spain yet, Asturias/Leon can't be confused with Spain. Spain just like Portugal developed from the remainders of those messy regional kingdoms. In fact, Spain only emerged in the 15th century, i.e. centuries after Portugal.
The key thing to remember is simply that the change of the name Hispania to Spain was not merely a linguistic one, but they describe totally different units.
The entire Iberian peninsula was the inheritor of Hispania, not just Leon.
Who cares what Hispanic means in the US?
I mean, who cares?
I'm talking about 1000 years before!!!!
I mean, who the hell cares what Americans think?
Saying that Portuguese are not Hispanic amounts to Jerry Lewis talking about quantum physics!!!
Who cares what Hispanic means in the US?
I mean, who cares?
I'm talking about 1000 years before!!!!
I mean, who the hell cares what Americans think?
Saying that Portuguese are not Hispanic amounts to Jerry Lewis talking about quantum physics!!!
Hispania was not conquered by Americans, allies or whatever. That's why nobody subscribes ignorant theories of ignorant Americans. Cultured Americans, yes.
I'm truly appalled by the fact that some Brazilian and Portuguese immigrants do not consider temselvers Hispanic, but who cares? Very soon they will be another no-push minority in that country.
Hispania has always been Progermanic, never forget that. Remember Hendaya and what Franco, a general, said to certain liutenant: don't mess with brits, don't mess Jews and do what you have to do.
Well, to be fair..he also asked part of Portugal..just to banter..
I beg you, ignore my messages!!!
To understand your messages I have to undergo Lobotomy, very painful.
Sorry this is a public forum if you comment on a topic that I'm interested in and I disagree with your opinion I will post in response. Once you post on this forum the messages are no longer yours they belong to everyone to comment on. You do have the option to put me on your ignore list.
Hispania was not conquered by Americans, allies or whatever. That's why nobody subscribes ignorant theories of ignorant Americans. Cultured Americans, yes.
I'm truly appalled by the fact that some Brazilian and Portuguese immigrants do not consider temselvers Hispanic, but who cares? Very soon they will be another no-push minority in that country.
Hispania has always been Progermanic, never forget that. Remember Hendaya and what Franco, a general, said to certain liutenant: don't mess with brits, don't mess Jews and do what you have to do.
Well, to be fair..he also asked part of Portugal..just to banter..
Hispanic has several meanings and all they have in common is to be related to Spain and/or the Spanish language. With so many definitions, "hispanic" in the end doesn't really mean anything specific at all, it all depends on the context. If Lusophones truly were hispanics they would just claim that identity. However Portuguese speakers of all countries reject that identity, for the simple reason that Portuguese-speaking people do not speak nor are affiliated to Spain, and form their own linguistic/cultural identity. This is not just about of few people trying to be original, it is a concept shared by millions and millions of individuals in several countries and continents. If they say they are not hispanics, they certainly aren't hispanics.
But tell me one why would would you want to push your hispanicity on people who want nothing to do with it? This sounds a little odd to me. Are you just trying to win some popularity contest to make yourself feel better? Or just trolling?
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