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hmmmm There is so much American culture everywhere, that things you think are the norm in YOUR culture, are actually American in origin.
Up until the 1960's Europe was pretty closed and provincial and sending millions of immigrants everywhere, well mostly to North and South America. A visit to that Europe and you'll see how different European culture was before it was Americanized and American culture had become mainstream in Europe.
America has vast complex diverse culture, you're simplifying it out of ignorance. It's like saying, yeah what is there to German culture besides lederhosen and sausages?
When what you say is true, then I must already be that americanized that I just don't realize the Americanization, but what are you actually talking about, can you give me a few examples, I think the most obvious example is clothing, basically people dress themselves the same overall the world, be it Japan, the US, Iraq or Germany, but other than that?
Where has Germany become americanized other than what I already mentioned?
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Originally Posted by soUlwounD
I personally dislike both, american culture and islamic culture. I don't care anything else but saving my own and keep living like before. I hate so much this american influence that they are adding, selling and forcing in covernment and EU level
If you hate America that much what do you do in an American forum, I wouldn't write in a Sunni forum.
As I have stated before, those people who are acting strangely, probably did the same where they came from. Their *actions* just do not fit in a western, mainly *Christian* society.
I do live in the USA and I AM worried that if the same thing would happen here, hordes of asylum seeking people, entering *my adopted* country, and then maybe doing the same abhorring acts, some of them are committing !
On the other hand, I do know that there is a small enclave of Muslims in the City where I live.
However, we do not see anything they do, that is even remotely like the bad stuff happening in some areas in Europe ...
So ... , dear OP, you may have to study up on the Muslim religion, find out what it really is all about and try to understand why it is happening.
In their original place of the Muslim world, that religion seems to flourish !
Now put that same religion inside a Western Christian world, and it could become a problem !!
There are two more words in English that sadly do not work to day anymore, or are misunderstood !
Those two words are *integration* and *assimilation*.
When I came to the USA (I was asked to come here, since I had a skill that was then needed in the USA), I integrated, but never assimilated. I obeyed and followed/adapted to American Customs and Laws, which even for me were often a bit strange. I have *never* demanded that official forms or documents are printed in *MY* language ! I have lived and worked (yanked the whole family there !!) in many foreign countries, because the US Government sent me there ! Again simply because I *understood* the people there ! In their linguistic and behaviorally differences !
After umpteen years in the USA, I have kept many of the things my parents taught me. I still speak my *mothers tongue* at home, I still eat with a spoon and fork, rather than a fork and a knife ! I still do not eat one inch thick steaks ! I still call my Mum and my Dad, Sir or Ma'm. Our kids act the same way ... and I (a brown-face) am married (for over 45 years now) to a true, all American, blue-eyed, blond haired Lady !
If someone does not even want to *integrate* first, then assimilation is not even remotely possible !!
Integration is a MUST ! Assimilation is optional !
Do I have a solution ? Sadly, no !
You don't have a solution because YOU are the solution! YOU are the perfect immigrant - educated, hardworking, loyal to your family values. If anything we NEED more of YOU.
Please keep doing what you do. Rest assured that we (USA) have been through many phases of immigrant resentment (yes resentment against - Irish, Germans, Italians, Catholics, Chinese, etc. etc.) throughout our roughly 300 years of history. One thing they all had in common was native resentment of newcomers different from themselves. We will get over it and as far as I am concerned - you are welcome here.
Location: God's Gift to Mankind for flying anything
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro
Rest assured that we (USA) have been through many phases of immigrant resentment (yes resentment against - Irish, Germans, Italians, Catholics, Chinese, etc. etc.) throughout our roughly 300 years of history. One thing they all had in common was native resentment of newcomers different from themselves. We will get over it
Thank you , but I think we are now *hijacking* the original intent of the post ...
But since we are ...
Is the USA not one giant melting pot of people who originally resisted the ways and means of their original areas ?
Could the person responsible for keeping the threads *in line* create another subject and put those messages in that new article ?
Well for one, millions of poor Americans are not moving to Europe, then gradually outnumbering the Europeans themselves and then fundamentally changing their countries, forever.
But the actions of United States certainly demand some criticism, much of it justified. For instance, American actions (actually non actions) on global warming.
A lot of criticism toward America seems to be with the reputation of multi-national corporations. But America itself is a victim of multi-national corporations: "U.S. FDI totaled $194[26] Billion in 2010. 84% of FDI in the United States in 2010 came from or through eight countries: Switzerland, the United Kingdom, Japan, France, Germany, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, and Canada". Notice of the 8 largest countries with direct investment in the United States, six of them are European.
That's the problem, you are all getting carried away. It isn't only Muslims who are moving to European countries but also Southamericans, Eastern Asians, ecc.
For example, the largest foreign communities in the main Italian cities are:
So, as you can see, out of the 10 largest Italian cities, the largest foreign community in 20% of them is Muslim (doesn't mean Muslims are the majority by the way), in 20% of them is Hindu, in 10% of them is Catholic and in 50% of them is Orthodox
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Originally Posted by vantexan
Who knows? But movements like Wahhabism are very influential in the Muslim world. If 10 percent of 1.5 billion are radicalized that's a significant group working towards our downfall.
I doubt a percentage that large adheres to Wahhabism but if we also count in Salafism, i think 10% is a decent estimate.
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Originally Posted by Krokodill
If Europe were were to take christian religion seriously, Europe would be as intolerant or more than Islamic countries. It just matters than those Islamic countries have gone though crisis and identitity crisis, as Europe in the past, and they have grasped religion as a lifesaver, which is the worse thing they could do.
To those that praise the "rationality" of Christianity vs. Islam, I will remember something that hapened today but in 1349. The number of Jews burned alive one by one were around 2000, not several hundreds.
But it must be pointed that all bloody progroms and slaughters of heterodox were not favoured by the nobility or church, but were populistic measures which is even sadder.
Finally someone's speaking sense, for centuries on end Christianity was guilty of several atrocities and it actually still is in several Subsaharian countries where there are militias who torture anyone who doesn't respect Christian beliefs in full.
The truth is that most religions have been strumentalized through their history for political means in the same way as ideologies.
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THINGS I DISLIKE ABOUT AMERICAN INFLUENCE:
-POLITICAL CORRECTNESS: Yes it works in the US, considering American history and culture it makes sense, but do not export it elsewhere where most likely won't work.
-FORCED SHOVED DOWN YOUR THROAT USA-STYLE MULTICULTURALISM: You HAVE to abandon your cultural heritage and label yourself with white/black or whatever term Americans use, and accept this new identity and embrace the American concept of multiculturalism, because you HAVE TO!
- CORPORTATION WINS OVER THE PEOPLE: Small businesses are over, it's all big corporations ruling everything, notice how stores everywhere in the world are nowadays pretty much the same! (this was born and largely pushed by the US)
- RUSSIA IS YOUR ENEMY EUROPE, AMERICA YOUR FRIEND: If Europe had TRULY INTELLIGENT LEADERS, they would take advantage of both Rusia and the USA relations wise.... Sadly European leaders are spineless and at the orders of the US, as a result Europe always ends up in the middle of all this power struggle against Russia, often paying for the broken dishes after the party is over, while the US is happy keeping its power over Europe!
- EUROPE NEEDS TO LOSE ITS CULTURE AND ACCEPT THE GLOBALIZED MULTICULTURAL USA-STYLE WORLD: I already mentioned something similar earlier, but American influence while good in many ways, has been terrible for Europe in A LOT OF OTHER WAYS! Certain countries especially Sweden, Netherlands, Germany are starting to look like the USA!
- WORK WORK WORK CONSUME CONSUME CONSUME, DON'T THINK! JUST WORK AND CONSUME: yes Europe is starting to become like that (Sadly!)
Agree with most of what you've said. European alliance with America is just a result of people wanting to side with Americans over Russians. That's because our people would rather be associated with a fully democratic countries (even if the president is often a schyzophrenic Republican) than a very flawed democracy which borderlines dictatorship where many rights are actually denied.
I think EU and the countries that are part of it should stand in the middle and seek for their own common solutions.
USA style multiculturalism is also something i don't want to happen, immigrants coming to our countries must integrate fully into it and be a valuable members of society, they should of course be free to practice their religion, listen to their music, cook their food, ecc. as long as it doesn't harm anyone else but that should take a backseat to Italian/French/German/ecc. especially for 2nd generation immigrants. I also don't want to see the birth of ethnic neighbourhoods such as in America because that would slow down this process
Who told you that I "extract my opinions from Britain/EDL/National Front youtube clips?"
I extract my opinion of Islam based on personal experience/observations, since I spent enough of time dealing with muslims, not to mention that I have them in my own family.
Your personal experience of a MAN, living in London at that, is of course very different from mine, being a woman and witnessing muslims not in big cosmopolitan cities ( where they are less of a problem,) but it their "natural habitats." Indeed my perception that Islamic culture is incompatible with European values/life style hits "closer to home" than yours, since you just "have acquaintances" somewhere in London.
All this "Britain First" and Luton events are just the latest discoveries of mine, that only add more details to a bigger picture.
If those are your beliefs and your observations, then stop resorting to propagandistic videos and organisations such as Britain First, NDL, National Front and such because they are one massive utter joke. Those are organizations who want us to step back one hundred years in the same way as the most conservative Muslims.
See, people are different, someone living in the Russian countryside may not have the same worldview as those who live in a cosmopolitan city such as London. I'll take his word (a Londoner) or mine (a Southern Italian) over the word of a Russian American when the matter of the discourse is the integration of Muslims and immigrants on the whole in European countries
I can understand you wanting to protect your friends from harm. But as pointed out by Erasure, R_U_A Wizard, and others, you can't in your zeal to protect innocent Muslims deny that there isn't a serious problem in the Muslim world. Attacks happen worldwide that slaughter innocent people. How many are doing it? It's not just the few that commit the attacks but also the millions who live under Sharia Law who give moral and monetary support to the killers. They are aware that they can't defeat our technology on the battlefield so it's their goal to disrupt our lives and hurt our economies. And if given access to a weapon that could destroy a major city do you think they'd turn down the chance? I think Americans and Europeans have much more in common than a group that, if allowed to grow to great enough numbers, would try to impose their belief system, their Sharia Law, on everyone around them. By the way I had a stent put in an artery in 2011 by a Muslim doctor who had a national reputation for his skill. A very nice man. Most of us conservative Christians have absolutely no problem with people like him other than we don't accept his beliefs. Some here keep talking about what Christians would do if given the chance. Christians aren't, but some Muslims are. Want greater acceptance of Muslims? Have them practice their beliefs in peace. That's what people want from the Christians they hate, should no less be demanded of Muslims?
I think we all know that there are problems in the Muslim World but it's legitimate to think that not all people in the Muslim world are the same and that the situation varies from city to city and from country to country.
For example, a Muslim living in Algiers or Oran is more likely to be more open minded to European values than someone living in the midst of the Atlas Mountains, in the same way a Muslim living in Tatarstan is on average more progressive than one living in Chechnya where Wahhabist views have spread, a Sufi isn't as likely to carry a terrotistic attack as a Salafist Sunni and so; population such as the Chechens have resorted to religion to gain independence while Kurds or Kabyles have resorted to ideals such as equality and so on who are associated with the left wing, ecc.
The Muslim world is made up by more than a billion people, by countless different branches who all disagree with each other on quite a few matters, by people speaking different languages, holding different political views, ecc. Most of us are oversimplifying a world that's harder to understand than our highly globalized one.
We've had Muslim honor killings in the States where parents killed their daughters for becoming too westernized. Read last year that many young Muslim women disappear in Europe, presumed to either be killed by their families or whisked away to an arranged marriage in the old country.
And what about the thousands whom do NOT engage in honour killings? I think you should come and visit Britain, take a stroll around Brick Lane, for example, and talk to some of the locals, maybe go to the pub as you're likely to find people who refer to themselves as Muslim too. And then ditch Fox News, Trump and all that inflammatory, ill-educated guff.
Last edited by pbobcat; 02-15-2016 at 12:18 PM..
Reason: typo
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