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The tide of migration to the Carolinas (both North and South) from Florida has stemmed considerably thanks to the real estate market here (unable to sell, upside down mortgages, etc) and the inability to find work pretty much everywhere right now. I think the desire is still there for many, especially for the weather and other quality of life measures.
Since the OP was centered around Raleigh-Durham, so was my post. Show me some stats where any city in Florida of comparable size to the Raleigh-Durham area has more educated citizens. While you're at it, explain to us why Raleigh-Durham constantly ends up on the lists of most educated cities while alas, no cities in Florida qualify.
You sure love you some "best places" survey's don't ya? Not surprising that subjective lists would impress you so much over hard data:
What do these places have in common? COLLEGE TOWNS!
"Raleigh-Durham" ends up on "the list" because it's a unique area where there is a cluster of cities that feature multiple higher education universities and government centers, compactly located within close proximity to one another.
Really, it doesn't take an advanced degree to figure that out.... or does it?
Income levels are similar in the lower wages, yes living costs are lower, epecially in housing. I can rent a three bedroom in a good location outside Raleigh for $650 with a 30 minute drive to downtown, try that in Miami. I can get a one bedroom apartment in a good complex for $550 just about anywhere.
Crime, Miami just sucks, people have to pay out their rear just to get away from the stuff. Poeple are so use to it here though, it is no use trying to explain it is not normal.
But again, housing. Housing in Miami and S. FL. is expensive relative to most people's income. Insurance is crazy for cars and housing, also with taxes. I was a resident of NC and now live in Miami, so I have a good perspective for my opinion. It is just housing takes up a huge proportion of people's money here. The example I like using is Walmart, Walmart here and in Raleigh pays the same, yet housing aorund the area is much less than in Miami, and there are a lot more good areas than in Miami. This example applies throughout the low wage sector.
What do these places have in common? COLLEGE TOWNS!
"Raleigh-Durham" ends up on "the list" because it's a unique area where there is a cluster of cities that feature multiple higher education universities and government centers, compactly located within close proximity to one another.
Really, it doesn't take an advanced degree to figure that out.... or does it?
Maybe it takes an advanced degree to read my post correctly. Did I not say an area in Florida of comparable size to Raleigh-Durham ? 2010 census numbers show the population of Raleigh-Durham at approx. 1,750,000 residents. The "hard data" has Tallahassee at approx. 367,000. Gainesville is much less at 125,000.
Are those comparable ? I think not ... why don't you compare Orlando, Tampa, or Jacksonville ?
And as far as the "best places" lists, once you see about 10 of the most educated lists with Raleigh-Durham on them and not one Florida city, subjective can be tossed out the window. At least someone has got their "hard data" correct ...
The flow of people into and out of Florida has been happening for half a century. They leave the north to escape the cold, then leave Florida to get away from the heat an humidity. North Carolina is where the "half (way) backs" go when they don't move all the way back north. It is less cold in the winter and doesn't have the 9 months of humidity Florida has.
North Carolina is prominent on all the "Best Places" lists this year. Think about it, it has beautiful mountains AND beaches.
Maybe it takes an advanced degree to read my post correctly. Did I not say an area in Florida of comparable size to Raleigh-Durham ? 2010 census numbers show the population of Raleigh-Durham at approx. 1,750,000 residents.
You're creating an artificial metro that cannot PHYSICALLY be duplicated in Florida area by conglomerating cities (INDIVIDUALLY OF ROUGH COMPARABLE SIZE to TALLAHASSEE and GAINESVILLE), and saying, "find a conglomeration of like-size cities"....
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Originally Posted by leftee
Are those comparable ? I think not ... why don't you compare Orlando, Tampa, or Jacksonville ?
INDIVIDUALLY, they ARE comparable.
Tampa, Jacksonville and Orlando are not three individual cities with multiple colleges and the seat of government (attracts educated people and professional degrees and lawyers). Therefore, they are not comparable. However, all of those cities in FLorida do have at least one to two universities each, community colleges, and private colleges. The proximity of Tampa-Orlando is the closest thing, but they aren't usually considered one metro for "lists" purposes. Tampa has USF and UT. Orlando has UCF, Valencia State College, and a couple of arts colleges, including Full Sail. Nearby Winterpark has Rollins college, a very well regarded school. Honestly, if you can't find intellectual stimulation, you're not trying.
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Originally Posted by leftee
And as far as the "best places" lists, once you see about 10 of the most educated lists with Raleigh-Durham on them and not one Florida city, subjective can be tossed out the window. At least someone has got their "hard data" correct ...
If Tallahassee and Gainesville were right next to each other, creating a "panhandle corridor," of sorts, there would be a comparable conglomeration of cities and citizens to the metro area of "the Triangle." But that's not existent in Florida. "Smartest" lists usually also have a population cutoff, which "Raleigh-Durham" only meets because its lumped into a metro.
Again, your demonstrable failure to have what educated people consider "nuance" is baffling considering your ill-placed and unearned attempts to denigrate the educational attainment and astuteness of Floridians! Then again, "best places lists" are USUALLY meant for people too lazy to do their own research... which is why they often employ big pictures and big number rankings to satisfy people who are impressed with such things.
And regardless, smart people in ANY town (be it part of your favorite list of "smart places" or not, as the vast majority of people in the US, including the millions in New York City which did not make your list), know where to find other smart people, and join organizations or be part of a social network of intelligentsia. If you aren't "finding it"... perhaps those who are "in" don't consider you up to par.
There are probably a lot more Floridians here in Western NC then there are in Raleigh. A lot of retirees move to Western NC. I would assume more working folks move to the Raleigh area.
The area definitely has a lot of transplants like FL. Some friendly, others not as friendly, just like anywhere else. Pay will be about the same in mot occupations, similar to Orlando, Tampa, South FL. But cost of living is definitely higher in NC now, unless you're living in the sticks.
I was making about $15k less in the same job here in NC as I was in FL. Taxes are higher in NC too. Both have their + 's and - 's.
You're creating an artificial metro that cannot PHYSICALLY be duplicated in Florida area by conglomerating cities (INDIVIDUALLY OF ROUGH COMPARABLE SIZE to TALLAHASSEE and GAINESVILLE), and saying, "find a conglomeration of like-size cities"....
Artificial metro ? That's your opinion ... kinda like WPB-Fort Lauderdale-Miami ? Or Sarasota-Bradenton-Tampa ? Go ahead and compare those artificial metros Einstein ...
Quote:
INDIVIDUALLY, they ARE comparable.
Tampa, Jacksonville and Orlando are not three individual cities with multiple colleges and the seat of government (attracts educated people and professional degrees and lawyers). Therefore, they are not comparable. However, all of those cities in FLorida do have at least one to two universities each, community colleges, and private colleges. Orlando has UCF, Valencia State College, and a couple of arts colleges, including Full Sail. Nearby Winterpark has Rollins college, a very well regarded school. Honestly, if you can't find intellectual stimulation, you're not trying.
Thanks Sherlock for again stating the obvious ... I'm not looking for intellectual stimulation - I've got plenty in my life. And since when do you have to have a bachelor's degree or higher to work for the government ? Or since when does a metro have to be a seat of government to attract educated people like doctors, lawyers and others.
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If Tallahassee and Gainesville were right next to each other, creating a "panhandle corridor," of sorts, there would be a comparable conglomeration of cities and citizens to the metro area of "the Triangle." But that's not existent in Florida. "Smartest" lists usually also have a population cutoff, which "Raleigh-Durham" only meets because its lumped into a metro.
As I said before, go ahead and lump your precious WPB, Ft. Lauderdale and Miami together and we'll call it a metro. Population cutoff should be about just right ... and even if your imaginary "panhandle corridor" was created, you'd be a far cry from Raleigh-Durham.
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Again, your demonstrable failure to have what educated people consider "nuance" is baffling considering your ill-placed and unearned attempts to denigrate the educational attainment and astuteness of Floridians!
Failure ? Truth hurt ? Your persistent defense of anything Florida is what denigrates the intelligence of most Floridians. No one said there weren't intelligent people in Florida; just not to the volumes of other places. Most people here with any level of education and mental aptitude would agree that Florida is not up to par with other states when comparing educational levels.
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And regardless, smart people in ANY town (be it part of your favorite list of "smart places" or not, as the vast majority of people in the US, including the millions in New York City which did not make your list), know where to find other smart people, and join organizations or be part of a social network of intelligentsia. If you aren't "finding it"... perhaps those who are "in" don't consider you up to par.
Not my list but again you choose to make it personal ... once again, this post was not about me. As I said before, I don't have any issue finding intellectual stimulation, even here in dreary ole Orlando.
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Last edited by doggiebus; 10-09-2011 at 09:05 PM..
Reason: Flaming
Artificial metro ? That's your opinion ... kinda like WPB-Fort Lauderdale-Miami ? Or Sarasota-Bradenton-Tampa ? Go ahead and compare those artificial metros Einstein ...
Are those metros utilized in your oh-so-objective "bestest edumacated" lists? Go ahead and get your latest version of "Highlights for Kids' Best Smart People in the World Places Survey" and tell the class what the methodology is, and by what metro standards and criteria they use.
I've already shown that Tallahassee has more people with bachelor's degrees than Raleigh, individually. So why was Raleigh ranked but not Tallahassee? Because of the population threshold. Are you trying to say that any random random person in Raleigh will have a better chance, per capita, to be around or meet someone who is "educated" (whatever THAT means).
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftee
Thanks Sherlock for again stating the obvious ... I'm not looking for intellectual stimulation - I've got plenty in my life. And since when do you have to have a bachelor's degree or higher to work for the government ? Or since when does a metro have to be a seat of government to attract educated people like doctors, lawyers and others.
If that's not blatantly obvious to you, then we've got some major problems.
Why do you suppose Washington DC is always well ranked? Why do so many people with degrees live there as compared to the national average? Lawyers, lobbyists, politicians, public relations, staffers, etc. etc.
Also, when a town has one or two major industries: Colleges and Government, you tend to have a lot of people with degrees running around. Compare to if a major industry is manufacturing, agriculture or even financial services.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftee
As I said before, go ahead and lump your precious WPB, Ft. Lauderdale and Miami together and we'll call it a metro. Population cutoff should be about just right ... and even if your imaginary "panhandle corridor" was created, you'd be a far cry from Raleigh-Durham.
The south FLorida metro is 5.5 million people, ace of stats. Palm Beach County alone has 1.32 million people. We only have one university and one state college within the county borders, whereas "the Triangle" has three major universities in roughly the same population bloc, and a well established research apparatus based on the university backbone.
Even so, 31% of the population of PBC over age 25 has a bachelor's degree or higher. Not too shabby.
As for the "metro" area, 30% have a bachelor's degree or higher. There are over 350,000 people enrolled in colleges or universities at any time. Again, pretty good for a region with a very significant immigrant population that draws from some pretty poor places in the world. .
Considering the average for the United States is 27% with a bachelor's degree, one would find better than average educated populace in South Florida.
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Originally Posted by leftee
Failure ? Truth hurt ? Your persistent defense of anything Florida is what denigrates the intelligence of most Floridians. No one said there weren't intelligent people in Florida; just not to the volumes of other places. Most people here with any level of education and mental aptitude would agree that Florida is not up to par with other states when comparing educational levels.
You're the one who started your post on a false premise. That people leave Florida to North Carolina in search of smart people. You made that statement despite no evidence, and only your misplaced, unearned educational snobbery to support such a statement.
During boom times, Florida has always had opportunities for blue collar, construction workers, agriculture workers and laborers. This is nothing to be ashamed of. Again, the more intelligent members of any society or city will find eachother.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftee
Not my list but again you choose to make it personal ... once again, this post was not about me. As I said before, I don't have any issue finding intellectual stimulation, even here in dreary ole Orlando.
Let's analyze your initial response to the OP:
Maybe it's because the folks that leave are lacking intellectual stimulation in Floriduh and the Raleigh-Durham area for one is always ranked as one of the most educated areas in the U.S. Don't see too many Florida cities on those lists, if any.
Good to know that you do not share the sentiment that Florida is "lacking in intellectual stimulation" and that only those who move to Raleigh Durham from Florida have made the determination (based on your infamous lists) is where they'll find the smart people they are so desperately craving to be around.
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Last edited by doggiebus; 10-09-2011 at 09:06 PM..
To the OP's original post - I personally do not see or believe people from Florida are going to NC in "droves". Maybe during the boom, as others have suggested, there were more cashing out here and buying more cheaply there, but that has changed. Also lots of people move around just for a change of scene. Frankly I have seen people move to NC and then move back here when they realized it really isn't "all that." Even my hubby and I bought a second home in WNC (Asheville) for vacations and possible future living, but after awhile we saw that we loved Florida FAR more, for many different reasons, and sold that place. We have relatives living in the Triangle, they have lived there awhile and are looking to get out. They hate the weather, it's cold in winter and very hot in summer they say (to them, much worse than Florida).
Anyway, Florida has about double the population of NC, so I don't think the few who leave makes all that much difference. Just read these forums to see all the people who want to move here - we need to make room!
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