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Old 12-31-2010, 01:38 PM
 
Location: St Paul, MN - NJ's Gold Coast
5,256 posts, read 11,979,439 times
Reputation: 3097

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
Ouch... the first few pages of this thread really made my head hurt!

The first problem with all this is the assumption people are moving soley, because of differences in taxes!

The places with higher taxes also have the biggest and older population centers. When a city or area gets so big the cost of living there, doing business there, and the government providing services eventually goes up per capita from congestion.

So businesses and people look for less populated areas to move to where it isn't as expensive to build, operate, and live in.

I'm from Atlanta. It is often cheaper to live/operate here, but if we had as many people NYC had we wouldn't be as cheap.

And yes businesses will strategically decide where to locate based on cost of running a business in a location, cost of taxes in a location, proximity to logistics (resources and human transport), proximity to intellectual capital, etc...

There is a reason why large cities in high tax areas (NYC) continue to have huge GMP's and huge populations, but this is always why there is more growth in less populated areas that aren't as congested, but provide access to some forms of intellectual capital or logistical resources.

Why does that have to turn into some big pro-tax or anti-tax argument with some people?

You want access (personal or business) to high education, high transportation, heavily resourced, and heavily populated areas you pay more to access it. If you don't need all that you locate somewhere else that is cheaper, but can provide what you do need.
Someone gets it!
+1
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Old 12-31-2010, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Tower of Heaven
4,023 posts, read 6,444,575 times
Reputation: 1440
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPerone201 View Post
How is Florida a poor example?
It went from 9 million people to 18 million people in 30 years. It went from low taxes, to high taxes.

Same situation will happen with GA/NC/etc their taxes will never stay that low. And if they love that their taxes are so low, they shouldn't be encouraging massive growth (which people tend to boast about)

People don't seem to comprehend this.

Yea yea yea, Europe sucks, and the US has the highest obesity rate in the world. Who needs taxes *belch*?
OMG You're a big liar

Look at people :
The Tax Foundation - State and Local Tax Burdens: All Years, One State, 1977-2008

Florida tax rate in 1977 : 8.4%
Florida tax rate in 2008 : 7.4%

Florida is 4th best state about the tax rate, it's really a low-tax state
High-tax supporters like you can continue to lie to us but smart people know the truth, it's useless
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Old 12-31-2010, 02:05 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,381 posts, read 23,407,937 times
Reputation: 4519
Quote:
Originally Posted by RenaudFR View Post
OMG You're a big liar

Look at people :
The Tax Foundation - State and Local Tax Burdens: All Years, One State, 1977-2008

Florida tax rate in 1977 : 8.4%
Florida tax rate in 2008 : 7.4%

Florida is 4th best state about the tax rate, it's really a low-tax state
High-tax supporters like you can continue to lie to us but smart people know the truth, it's useless
Florida has some of the worst schools and high unemployment. It mainly relies on tourism and has no other industry...
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Old 12-31-2010, 02:13 PM
 
Location: St Paul, MN - NJ's Gold Coast
5,256 posts, read 11,979,439 times
Reputation: 3097
Quote:
Originally Posted by RenaudFR View Post
OMG You're a big liar

Look at people :
The Tax Foundation - State and Local Tax Burdens: All Years, One State, 1977-2008

Florida tax rate in 1977 : 8.4%
Florida tax rate in 2008 : 7.4%

Florida is 4th best state about the tax rate, it's really a low-tax state
High-tax supporters like you can continue to lie to us but smart people know the truth, it's useless
Florida is cheap, the property taxes are cheap, and they NEVER had a major foreclosure crisis in the past. .. Now I'm a liar.

I like FL don't get me wrong, but I know taxes have dramatically spiked over the past 15-20 years.
They have no state income tax anyway, which is always good

"High-tax supporters like you can continue to lie to us but smart people"
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed

I'm not a high tax or low tax supporter. You're just being a one sided, ignorant low tax supporter who don't understand why a place actually has high taxes.

Last edited by Yac; 01-03-2011 at 07:14 AM..
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Old 12-31-2010, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC NoVA
1,105 posts, read 1,950,655 times
Reputation: 775
tell me why you would need high taxes if taxes are low and so much business and manufacturing has moved there that you actually have more taxes flowing in? 50% taxes and less business and manufacturing vs. 20% taxes and 10 times the amount of manufacturing and business. you tell me who will be richer in the end, who will be more powerful and influential?

i'm all about opportunity. i want to get rich, that's my life's goal. i've got thousands invested and i'm about to inherit millions in mutual funds from my aunt. after i get the money, i'm going to start my own business. but where will i go? not north. i'll most likely try to start a business in maybe texas, kuwait city, dubai, hong kong, or shanghai with a couple more possibilities.




Last edited by CelticGermanicPride; 12-31-2010 at 03:30 PM..
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Old 12-31-2010, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC NoVA
1,105 posts, read 1,950,655 times
Reputation: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPerone201 View Post
How is Florida a poor example?
It went from 9 million people to 18 million people in 30 years. It went from low taxes, to high taxes.
population has nothing to do with tax rates, it more likely has to do with a specific area of voters who are more liberal, probably transplants, voting democrat.

Quote:
Same situation will happen with GA/NC/etc their taxes will never stay that low. And if they love that their taxes are so low, they shouldn't be encouraging massive growth (which people tend to boast about)

People don't seem to comprehend this.
i want massive growth. why the hell not? lots of jobs, lots to do, lots going on, lots of investment, lots of money. that's what i want; the opportunity to get RICH off of all the investments into new business and new ideas.

Quote:
Yea yea yea, Europe sucks, and the US has the highest obesity rate in the world. Who needs taxes *belch*?
and what exactly does obesity have to do with anything? obese people are in the minority and it has nothing to do with anything at all with what we're talking about.
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Old 12-31-2010, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Tower of Heaven
4,023 posts, read 6,444,575 times
Reputation: 1440
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticGermanicPride View Post
tell me why you would need high taxes if taxes are low and so much business and manufacturing has moved there that you actually have more taxes flowing in? 50% taxes and less business and manufacturing vs. 20% taxes and 10 times the amount of manufacturing and business. you tell me who will be richer in the end, who will be more powerful and influential?

i'm all about opportunity. i want to get rich, that's my life's goal. i've got thousands invested and i'm about to inherit millions in mutual funds from my aunt. after i get the money, i'm going to start my own business. but where will i go? not north. i'll most likely try to start a business in maybe texas, kuwait city, dubai, hong kong, or shanghai with a couple more possibilities.



You should avoid no democratic places, that can be dangerous.Texas is certainly your best option, but it's just my opinion.
And yeah I'm entirely agree ! Low taxes = more people and businesses = more revenues for the government.High taxes are just an easy path for lazy politicians.
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Old 12-31-2010, 04:40 PM
 
Location: west mich
5,740 posts, read 5,876,596 times
Reputation: 2120
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticGermanicPride View Post
that's not hypocrisy. one of them stated clearly that he's against it, but he still went. it's a photo op, true, but could it have been more? do you think they go only to have a picture taken, or do you think they talk politics too? he said he's against it, clearly, him having a picture taken with the president of the united states is something anybody would take advantage of regardless of their political beliefs.
*Yeah, Hoekstra said he's really "against it" when cornered by the press. What else could he say - "I'm a hypocrite"?
*Of course they schmooze at these events, there's little time for anything else.
*BTW this whole area where the plant is being built is highly Republican and is generally opposed to projects like this. Government grants are socialism, right?
*In your post, the phrase "take advantage of" really says it all.
Have a good new year CGP.
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Old 12-31-2010, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC NoVA
1,105 posts, read 1,950,655 times
Reputation: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by detwahDJ View Post
*Yeah, Hoekstra said he's really "against it" when cornered by the press. What else could he say - "I'm a hypocrite"?
*Of course they schmooze at these events, there's little time for anything else.
*BTW this whole area where the plant is being built is highly Republican and is generally opposed to projects like this. Government grants are socialism, right?
*In your post, the phrase "take advantage of" really says it all.
Have a good new year CGP.
he knows he's against it. read the friggin article. he explains his reasoning pretty clearly, that doesn't mean he's going to sit his $&@ inside when the president is in town. i don't know anything about this "picture" you speak of but i would've went to have my picture taken with the president too. not too much will the president be in holland michigan. now if he was doing it for some sort of publicity (which is really none because nobody outside of holland, michigan really cares and most people in holland michigan probably don't care), then i wouldn't support him. but still, what does a picture that noone will even look at matter when interviewed about the whole situation he stood by the fact that he's against it? plenty of politicians shake hands and take photo ops with people they don't agree with at all.

and on top of it all, who really gives a crap about some little crap in holland michigan that will probably go nowhere. keep going the way you're going; your state's sucked since capitalism ended and it'll keep going in that direction.
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Old 12-31-2010, 07:58 PM
 
Location: west mich
5,740 posts, read 5,876,596 times
Reputation: 2120
Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticGermanicPride View Post
now if he was doing it for some sort of publicity (which is really none because nobody outside of holland, michigan really cares and most people in holland michigan probably don't care), then i wouldn't support him.
and on top of it all, who really gives a crap about some little crap in holland michigan that will probably go nowhere. keep going the way you're going; your state's sucked since capitalism ended and it'll keep going in that direction.
*But CGP it isn't "some little crap", it was national and international news.
*When did capitalism end? Are you speaking of govt grants to corporations? Republicans have embraced it here (tacitly of course).
*Sorry to hear you don't like Michigan. Come on up for a vacation sometime, you might like it.
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