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Old 04-18-2017, 04:42 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,742 posts, read 6,141,582 times
Reputation: 3590

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Quote:
Originally Posted by qworldorder View Post
This just simply isn't true. Baltimore shares much in common with Philadelphia, from being majority row house cities, to crab fries, to being legacy cities on the mend (in different stages), to sharing a similar dialect, to shared hip hop connections and styles (capri pants, Wu-tang dance being performed to Baltimore club music), to being overshadowed by a larger, more prominent city that directly infringes on its metro, etc. There are lots of similarities for two cities that are only 100 miles apart--trust me, I live in the transition zone.

Baltimore just isn't a completely southern city. Not even close. It has far too many similarities with the rest of the Northeast Corridor for this to be taken seriously. You keep asking what changed to make Baltimore "not southern" any more, and its simple. Other demographics have moved in creating cultural changes, its infrastructure has become more intertwined with and similar to the rest of the Northeast (Acela, MARC, Metro Subway), and its economy has become a part of the fast-paced, white collar and service economy that the Northeast is known for. Metropolitan Baltimore is wealthier than any similarly sized southern city (Charlotte, Tampa, Orlando, San Antonio). It's public transit infrastructure, while small by Northeast standards, dwarfs real southern cities, in both usage and miles, with only Atlanta and Miami, metros over twice as large, being even on the same page (and notably behind in certain metrics). I mean, Baltimore Penn Station is the seventh busiest Amtrak station in the country, because intercity passenger rail travel is decidedly un-southern.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...n_areas_by_GDP

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...s_by_ridership

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...s_by_ridership

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...s_by_ridership

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...mtrak_stations
Rowhouses aren't exclusive to the northeast. Furthermore, The VAST majority of those rowhouses were built when Baltimore was undoubtedly a southern city, so how can rowhouses now be used as a indicator to claim Baltimore as a northeastern city? The things that you mention about Baltimore being like Philly (which isn't true) can simply be attributed to the fact that Philly has adopted a more southern culture by picking up on some of Baltimore's culture. Another point that you brought up is demographics, which I 'd like to know exactly what demographic, how it changes Baltimore, and why can't a city introduce a new demographic without changing which region of the country that it is in. Subways aren't exclusive to the northeast; in-fact, Baltimore and Miami have the same subways cars, built by the company, and the subway of both cities were built at the same time. The only thing that Baltimore has is common with Philly is Rowhouses, weather, and that they were once blue collar cities. People from Philly will tell you that Philly and Baltimore don't really have anything in common; Philly is NY lite, Baltimore does its own thing.

I still stand by Baltimore being completely southern. I have yet to hear a valid argument on how it isn't.

Last edited by KodeBlue; 04-18-2017 at 04:51 PM..
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:45 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
2,479 posts, read 2,225,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oobanks View Post
Kentucky to me is half Upper South and the rest just Midwest including Louisville over to Cincy burbs/Covington, KY area but that's just me...
The accents I've heard in Louisville alone make it not come across as Midwestern, and this is coming from someone from St. Louis. I'm used to a sort of rural twang developing the further you get away from the urban core of the metro, but that's not what I experienced in Louisville.

If Missouri is to be considered Midwestern with Southern elements, then I'd consider Kentucky to be Southern with Midwestern elements. The two states feel like opposite sides of the same coin.
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Old 04-18-2017, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Denver
14,151 posts, read 19,759,815 times
Reputation: 8803
Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
Rowhouses aren't exclusive to the northeast. Furthermore, The VAST majority of those rowhouses were built when Baltimore was undoubtedly a southern city, so how can rowhouses now be used as a indicator to claim Baltimore as a northeastern city? The things that you mention about Baltimore being like Philly (which isn't true) can simply be attributed to the fact that Philly has adopted a more southern culture by picking up on some of Baltimore's culture. Another point that you brought up is demographics, which I 'd like to know exactly what demographic, how it changes Baltimore, and why can't a city introduce a new demographic without changing which region of the country that it is in. Subways aren't exclusive to the northeast; in-fact, Baltimore and Miami have the same subways cars, built by the company, and the subway of both cities were built at the same time. The only thing that Baltimore has is common with Philly is Rowhouses, weather, and that they were once blue collar cities. People from Philly will tell you that Philly and Baltimore don't really have anything in common; Philly is NY lite, Baltimore does its own thing.

I still stand by Baltimore being completely southern. I have yet to hear a valid argument on how it isn't.
What
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Old 04-18-2017, 06:18 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,742 posts, read 6,141,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
What
What about that sentence is unclear?
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Old 04-18-2017, 07:23 PM
 
Location: SE Pennsylvania
368 posts, read 268,905 times
Reputation: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
Rowhouses aren't exclusive to the northeast. Furthermore, The VAST majority of those rowhouses were built when Baltimore was undoubtedly a southern city, so how can rowhouses now be used as a indicator to claim Baltimore as a northeastern city? The things that you mention about Baltimore being like Philly (which isn't true) can simply be attributed to the fact that Philly has adopted a more southern culture by picking up on some of Baltimore's culture. Another point that you brought up is demographics, which I 'd like to know exactly what demographic, how it changes Baltimore, and why can't a city introduce a new demographic without changing which region of the country that it is in. Subways aren't exclusive to the northeast; in-fact, Baltimore and Miami have the same subways cars, built by the company, and the subway of both cities were built at the same time. The only thing that Baltimore has is common with Philly is Rowhouses, weather, and that they were once blue collar cities. People from Philly will tell you that Philly and Baltimore don't really have anything in common; Philly is NY lite, Baltimore does its own thing.

I still stand by Baltimore being completely southern. I have yet to hear a valid argument on how it isn't.
Actually, Ive yet to hear a valid arguement from you on how Baltimore IS southern.

Historically, yes Maryland was technically a south leaning border state. It was a slave state, but eventually was Union state by the start of the Civil War.

Geographically, it is FAR more north then it is south.

Culturally, it is Mid-Atlantic, which is Delaware, most of Maryland, about half of VA, southern/southeast Pennsylvania, and south jersey. Mid Atlantic is basically a mixed northeast/southern cultural region, which is reflected in its accents and other cultural attributes, with VA being more south leaning, PA/NJ being more north leaning, and MD/DE being about even or slightly more northern.

Demographically, Baltimore is the least diverse major city in the northeast. Compared to the other 4 major cities in the northeast bos-wash corridor, it has Tiny Hispanic (Puerto rican/Dominican, central american), imigrant black (african, caribbean), immigrant white (italian etc) populations. But these groups are NOT exclusive to the northeast, nor do they fully define northeast culture. Every region in the US has major cities that are diverse and some that are not.
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Old 04-18-2017, 07:31 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
33,889 posts, read 42,114,647 times
Reputation: 43295
Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
Rowhouses aren't exclusive to the northeast. Furthermore, The VAST majority of those rowhouses were built when Baltimore was undoubtedly a southern city, so how can rowhouses now be used as a indicator to claim Baltimore as a northeastern city? The things that you mention about Baltimore being like Philly (which isn't true) can simply be attributed to the fact that Philly has adopted a more southern culture by picking up on some of Baltimore's culture. Another point that you brought up is demographics, which I 'd like to know exactly what demographic, how it changes Baltimore, and why can't a city introduce a new demographic without changing which region of the country that it is in. Subways aren't exclusive to the northeast; in-fact, Baltimore and Miami have the same subways cars, built by the company, and the subway of both cities were built at the same time. The only thing that Baltimore has is common with Philly is Rowhouses, weather, and that they were once blue collar cities. People from Philly will tell you that Philly and Baltimore don't really have anything in common; Philly is NY lite, Baltimore does its own thing.

I still stand by Baltimore being completely southern. I have yet to hear a valid argument on how it isn't.
Funny how a Northeast city like Baltimore has several Confederate memorials. I guess the other ones have them too. Or not , because they're not Southern.
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Old 04-18-2017, 08:15 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,742 posts, read 6,141,582 times
Reputation: 3590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spreadofknowledge View Post
Actually, Ive yet to hear a valid arguement from you on how Baltimore IS southern.

Historically, yes Maryland was technically a south leaning border state. It was a slave state, but eventually was Union state by the start of the Civil War.

Geographically, it is FAR more north then it is south.

Culturally, it is Mid-Atlantic, which is Delaware, most of Maryland, about half of VA, southern/southeast Pennsylvania, and south jersey. Mid Atlantic is basically a mixed northeast/southern cultural region, which is reflected in its accents and other cultural attributes, with VA being more south leaning, PA/NJ being more north leaning, and MD/DE being about even or slightly more northern.

Demographically, Baltimore is the least diverse major city in the northeast. Compared to the other 4 major cities in the northeast bos-wash corridor, it has Tiny Hispanic (Puerto rican/Dominican, central american), imigrant black (african, caribbean), immigrant white (italian etc) populations. But these groups are NOT exclusive to the northeast, nor do they fully define northeast culture. Every region in the US has major cities that are diverse and some that are not.
You just refuted your own argument by stating reasons Baltimore shouldn't be considered Northeast. Then, you proceed to give a rundown of Baltimore's history, as a southern city, but never stated how or when Baltimore became northeastern.On the other hand, I will say that Baltimore is a very diverse metro, but that's subjective; some of those "Northeastern" ethnicities are higher percentage-wise in Baltimore than they are in northeastern metros. This Hispanic community in the Baltimore area is growing as well particularly Puerto Rican and Dominican.

Also, the south isn't trying to be like the Northeast, as I've stated before, the northeast isn't anything special. The south is trouncing the Northeast with the amount of growth that its cities are seeing. In 2017, being called northeastern should be seen as an insult.

Last edited by KodeBlue; 04-18-2017 at 08:27 PM..
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Old 04-18-2017, 08:19 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,742 posts, read 6,141,582 times
Reputation: 3590
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Funny how a Northeast city like Baltimore has several Confederate memorials. I guess the other ones have them too. Or not , because they're not Southern.
Thought I'm not a fan of the Confederate statues, I will admit that you're correct. Where are the Confederate memorials in the Northeast?
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Old 04-18-2017, 08:54 PM
 
Location: West Tennessee
2,082 posts, read 2,899,264 times
Reputation: 1337
Quote:
Originally Posted by KY_Transplant View Post
Here is my take on the OP's question. I have listed the States from most Southern to least Southern and included my reasoning, briefly.

Kentucky
This commonwealth has thick Southern accents, home to the world's largest fried chicken chain KFC, produces 95% of the world's bourbon, is host of the Kentucky Derby, is the birthplace of Bluegrass Music...a sub-genre of Country music, is largely Baptist in religion affiliation and identifies mostly as American in ancestry. Kentucky is within the Southern Appalachians, much like Tennessee and Southern Virginia/WV. Kentucky is one of the top Tobacco producers in the nation. Anecdotally, it is nearly identical to Tennessee in geography, topography and cultural ties. I seriously don't understand how anyone could call Kentucky anything other than Southern. Show me the Midwestern characteristics (outside of NKY and Cinci suburbs). I don't even think Louisville is that Midwestern either. Outside of the City Data Forum, the vast majority of people consider Kentucky to be Southern and usually apply all the usual stereotypes to it.


West Virginia
Less southern than Kentucky as it stretches significantly further North with it's two panhandles.
It also leans more Midwestern around Wheeling due to the steel industry. Seems more similar to Pennsylvania in the Northern portion of the State and actually has a large Italian population around Clarksburg and points North along I-79. The Southern area of the State certainly leans Southern as one can start to pick up on the Southern Appalachian twangy accent. Either way, WV is a very rural, conservative state.

Missouri
Extreme Southern half of Missouri is somewhat Southern, although I feel like I am in the Midwest whenever in Missouri. Definitely a border state.

Maryland
Never really felt Southern to me and it seems most of the people there DO NOT identify as Southern. I guess a case could be made that it has Southern characteristics, but I always view it as Mid-Atlantic or East Coast.

Delaware
Nope, not Southern AT ALL. Only because the U.S. Census labels it as Southern, is this even a discussion of Delaware being Southern.

Sources:

Agree with MO. To the OP: Culture plays a role as well as the census definitions. I grew up in a part of Missouri that I consider to be the south. (Southeast corner) but most of the state is different than Southeast Missouri.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:42 AM
Status: "RIP Solomon Tekah" (set 8 days ago)
 
1,223 posts, read 580,757 times
Reputation: 1183
I don't know Kode, I think the answer is that Baltimore has an Old South history but was more progressive than Savannah and Charleston (the flag bearers of Old South). Well, MD will always bring about debate due to the overlap. I think it's crazy to call B More a Northerneastern city but I can understand it on the surface. Also on the surface is calling Baltimore a Southern city is crazy too. I just don't think Baltimore is 100% anything really. I do think Baltimore left its Southern peers a long time ago but it's history excludes it from being Northeastern. Regarding the cotton producing South, nah B More was not apart of that either.
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