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I don't care if someone is born gay or not. It's not for me to tell someone who they should or should not be attracted to. But I'll say this: the amount of absolute ridicule, disdain, judgment that gay people go thru, they are either very stupid if they "choose" (as so many people like to assume) to be gay or very brave.
Yup. Adult people should all be given equality under the law, so long as they are not breaking the law. To me, that's the issue. We are too great a country to turn a segment of our population into second class citizens. We did it to women and then we did it to blacks. Now gays seem to be the whipping boys for the persecutors. It seems as though there is a certain segment of society that is not happy unless they think some others are under them in status or worthiness. That is neither American nor spiritual.
to address the question no i do not believe people are born gay--i would have to see the medical data-----be that as it may-----i have never seen the ridicule or hatred mentioned and i grew up in a small town with 2 gay cousins(one that dressed as a man)and i saw total acceptance only----plus i later lived in an artistically oriented community with a large,very active "gay" community----so is it possible that some of this"hostility"is imagined or exaggerated and internal only?????
to address the question no i do not believe people are born gay--i would have to see the medical data-----be that as it may-----i have never seen the ridicule or hatred mentioned and i grew up in a small town with 2 gay cousins(one that dressed as a man)and i saw total acceptance only----plus i later lived in an artistically oriented community with a large,very active "gay" community----so is it possible that some of this"hostility"is imagined or exaggerated and internal only?????
Uh no. You need only look at this very forum & the disdain & hatred for gays by more than a few on here is VERY evident. You say you lived in an artistic community w/a large gay population....lol, well OF COURSE you're not going to see the ridicule! Artistic communities are known for a large population of gays & so if you're living amongst gays, don't you think you would feel acceptance instead of judgment? Of course.
to address the question no i do not believe people are born gay--i would have to see the medical data-----be that as it may-----i have never seen the ridicule or hatred mentioned and i grew up in a small town with 2 gay cousins(one that dressed as a man)and i saw total acceptance only----plus i later lived in an artistically oriented community with a large,very active "gay" community----so is it possible that some of this"hostility"is imagined or exaggerated and internal only?????
Exaggerated? Yes, sometimes. I do think some gays, like many minority groups, go to far and seem to get a kick out of being perpetual victims.
That said, anti-gay discrimination is VERY real. I know that I did not imagine being bullied growing up in elementary and high school. I know that I can not legall marry. I know that most religious institutions don't allow people like me to marry someone of the same gender. I know that gay friends of mine who are married under my state's laws end up paying more in Federal income taxes because they can't file joint returns, etc. The discrimination, legal, social, and otherwise, is very real for anyone willing to open their eyes.
Heck, just look at attitudes of people like CrownVic. Even if it doesn't show on the surface, there are people out there like CrownVic who are hiring managers, and when faced with a choice between a candidate they suspect is gay vs. a straight candidate for a job, they'll go with the straight candidate every time. In that respect, anti-gay discrimination is similar to age discrimination....everyone knows it exists, but it's tough to prove legally.
By the way, artistic communties tend to have a lot of gay people and/or are very gay tolerant, so of course, you're not going to see much outward discrimination in such a community. It's pretty much a no-brainer that a small artistic community is not going to be representative of most small towns.
Exaggerated? Yes, sometimes. I do think some gays, like many minority groups, go to far and seem to get a kick out of being perpetual victims.
That said, anti-gay discrimination is VERY real. I know that I did not imagine being bullied growing up in elementary and high school. I know that I can not legall marry. I know that most religious institutions don't allow people like me to marry someone of the same gender. I know that gay friends of mine who are married under my state's laws end up paying more in Federal income taxes because they can't file joint returns, etc. The discrimination, legal, social, and otherwise, is very real for anyone willing to open their eyes.
Heck, just look at attitudes of people like CrownVic. Even if it doesn't show on the surface, there are people out there like CrownVic who are hiring managers, and when faced with a choice between a candidate they suspect is gay vs. a straight candidate for a job, they'll go with the straight candidate every time. In that respect, anti-gay discrimination is similar to age discrimination....everyone knows it exists, but it's tough to prove legally.
By the way, artistic communties tend to have a lot of gay people and/or are very gay tolerant, so of course, you're not going to see much outward discrimination in such a community. It's pretty much a no-brainer that a small artistic community is not going to be representative of most small towns.
Here we go again with the "bullying" sob story....such an old, tired, and totally invalid argument. Do you have any idea how many shy/smaller/more reserved boys get bullied in Junior High School? Roughly?.......all of them - and I was one of them. Happened since time began and I lived....and I gather so did you. Wanna hear about the time a future reform school kid came after me with a pair of tin snips in shop class and cut up my shirt and gouged my chest? We could probably spend the rest of the afternoon swapping stories because I've got lots more. Point is you're not going to stop school bullying in that age group until you shut down public schools. And kids confused into thinking they're "gay" have no monopoly on victim-hood.
Talk about my "attitude" all you want, but understand that it is shared by most men. Do what you want in your private life, but when it comes to men having sex with men, we don't want to see it and we don't want to hear about it. It's that simple and it's not going to change, regardless of how many are silenced by seeing political correctness as the real authority in their lives.
"The only purpose for which power can be rightly exercised over any member of a civilized community against his will, is to prevent harm to others."
John Stuart Mill, On Liberty.
Some people are born gay, some aspireness to gayness, and others have gayness thrust upon them.
Okay not really. I think it's a complicated mix of genetics, in-utero chemicals, and early childhood exposures. A good deal of it we don't yet understand.
Talk about my "attitude" all you want, but understand that it is shared by most men. Do what you want in your private life, but when it comes to men having sex with men, we don't want to see it and we don't want to hear about it. It's that simple and it's not going to change, regardless of how many are silenced by seeing political correctness as the real authority in their lives.
Such a pleasant post.
You don't want to hear about it? Well you know, there are a LOT of things I don't like hearing about but hey, that's life. Conversations float around you, might as well put earplugs in your ears permanently.
It seems as though there is a certain segment of society that is not happy unless they think some others are under them in status or worthiness. .
Yep. It always boils down to the need to feel superior. Not that I'm singling out homophobes. It's a universal human problem. Unfortunately, gays do it to each other in various ways as well
Here we go again with the "bullying" sob story....such an old, tired, and totally invalid argument. Do you have any idea how many shy/smaller/more reserved boys get bullied in Junior High School? Roughly?.......all of them - and I was one of them..
And now you get to feel superior/lord it over men with lower social status than yourself. You've become just like the people who bullied you. Nice job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95
Happened since time began and I lived....and I gather so did you. Wanna hear about the time a future reform school kid came after me with a pair of tin snips in shop class and cut up my shirt and gouged my chest? We could probably spend the rest of the afternoon swapping stories because I've got lots more. Point is you're not going to stop school bullying in that age group until you shut down public schools. And kids confused into thinking they're "gay" have no monopoly on victim-hood..
If behavior is accepted as normal and inevitable, you are right, it will continue. It only stops when enough people insist that it stop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95
Talk about my "attitude" all you want, but understand that it is shared by most men.
I don't really care if "most" men share this attitude or not. It doesn't make it ok. "Most" people live payday to payday. At one point in time, most people probably thought slavery was ok, too. Did any of that make it ok?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95
Do what you want in your private life, but when it comes to men having sex with men, we don't want to see it and we don't want to hear about it. It's that simple and it's not going to change, regardless of how many are silenced by seeing political correctness as the real authority in their lives.
Here is the typical double standard we see with homophobes. They love to say gays can do what they want in their "private lives". But they can talk publicly at work and in other social situations about dating, sex with women, etc. So what happens when a gay guy is with a group of straight guys talking about women? The gay guy can't exactly join the conversation. So he is automatically suspect by the homophobes. Then when the homophobe is called on the carpet for his attitude he wais about being "silenced"...but he doesn't see how he has silenced/excluded other people his whole freakin' life.
I suspect you don't want gays to keep their private lives private. You want us to keep our lives a secret so we can tiptoe around your fears/shortcomings and so that you can be like the bullies who bullied you. Not gonna happen.
Fortunately, the younger generation is less homophobic than the old dinosaurs.
Last edited by mysticaltyger; 08-15-2011 at 03:47 PM..
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Here we go again with the "bullying" sob story....such an old, tired, and totally invalid argument. Do you have any idea how many shy/smaller/more reserved boys get bullied in Junior High School? Roughly?.......all of them - and I was one of them. Happened since time began and I lived....and I gather so did you. Wanna hear about the time a future reform school kid came after me with a pair of tin snips in shop class and cut up my shirt and gouged my chest? We could probably spend the rest of the afternoon swapping stories because I've got lots more. Point is you're not going to stop school bullying in that age group until you shut down public schools. And kids confused into thinking they're "gay" have no monopoly on victim-hood.