We need to discuss the online radicalisation of young, white men (wages, generations)
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That's not true. About 20.5% of Americans voted for her.
And please don't put words in his mouth regarding what he will and won't acknowledge.
I'll speak for myself: white males do not have privilege in any meaningful sense, i.e., in any sense that is worth discussing in a political context. People of all races have privilege to varying degrees in various contexts, and the decontextualized focus on "white privilege" and only "white privilege" is nothing more than a racist attack on whites as a group.
If you so called liberals really want to prevent young white men from being "radicalized" maybe you should stop using the term "privileged" (which is a stupid term to begin with since everyone has certain abilities and disabilities dependent on background, financial status, health, etc) and actually listen to some of their concerns, most of which are pretty valid.
Honestly this very arrogant/smug type of thinking is the reason why Hillary Clinton lost the election to begin with (even in so called Blue States like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan).
And what exactly are those valid concerns? Are they set off by certain media sources who prey on irrational fear like brown illegal immigrants plotting to put some sort of white holocaust in motion? The only valid concern here I see is economical but that is a concern for all races.
There was some talk in the thread about the Quebec mosque shooting about how and why it happened. It's obvious Elliot Rodger, Dylan Roof and all of the others didn't just pop up out of nowhere. Around Trump's surprise win of the election I remember reading a few good think-pieces about how and why more and more white men seem to be joining or aligning themselves with hate-groups based around white male superiority.
Personally? I don't expect white people, either liberals or conservatives, to lift a finger to do a thing about this. There's one thing white people don't do, and that's see themselves as a cohesive group. Everyone is a lone shooter or solitary bad egg with white skin, but every brown or black person that commits a crime is indicative of a deeper issue within their respective culture.
White men are more guilty when they commit crimes than literally any other group could be living under white supremacy, because everyone else has to deal with negative effects of white supremacy on their lives socially and economically, yet every effort is made to try to absolve them of responsibility of whatever they do.
It's a historical pastime. From presidents and slaves, to Christopher Columbus, to FDR and racism. It's always excuses and reasons why their mess ups have to be overlooked. There is one odd thing I noticed, all of these articles about radicalization seem to point out the sexual frustration of these men. There's seems to be some kind of testosterone link.
I see it as a combination of the patriarchy and expectations set by the media, but a lot of it comes down to "my sex life isn't what I want it to be, let me make it everyone else's fault". Disenchanted, cornered, young males with feelings of inadequacy on the fringes of society being told that The Other is the cause of everything wrong with the world and that they're doing themselves and the world a favor by ridding the world of that Other.
Society tells that them white men are top dogs socially and economically across the world. That makes them believe that they're entitled to any women they choose. We constantly reinforce imagery and ideology that expresses that men (especially white men) are owed whatever they want - including sex.
Pretty scary how groups of people can radicalize because they feel estranged from society and think that society owes them something, be it a job, respect, sex, success, etc. This is what happens when white people sacrifice social solidarity in the name of capitalistic pursuit.
Many cultures have some version of the "you're not a man until you ____", which can be toxic, but many of them still have a level of social cohesion where young men know that they will have the support of their families and local community. They are still swaddled in the warmth of a reliable social fabric. But for young, white men in our current climate, I don't know if they see themselves as having a culture.
Media consumption simply tells them that white men are defined by their success, not by their socialization - whether that success be physical (conquering enemies), romantic (acquiring a love interest/sex), mental (outsmarting others) or financial (being a CEO). The other useful source of information, parents and peers, provide conflicting information - be nice to others, but play to win. Treat women with respect, but go out and sow your wild oats. Obey the law, but "boys will be boys". Try to fit in, but be yourself. Don't say hateful things to minorities, but also don't bring one of them home to us.
There may be some psychological/neurological evidence that men, more than women, look externally when trying to find the source of their problems. It's not that they're unattractive or unfunny, it's that all the women are whores who just want to date jerks. It's not that they're unqualified for the job, it's that Blacks are being given the upperhand. So amidst their conflicted messages and their raging hormones, some of them go searching for an external "threat" rather than face the knot of confusion within.
I imagine many of these men feel alone, lost, in pain, angry, bitter, insecure. They don't realize that, from birth, society has held them to an implied contract that goes something like this: "You'll be on the right side of history and the best side of the law. You'll be rich and famous and adored. You'll be treated as the most important. The only condition is that you have to care about success more than anything else - more than family, more than friends, more than lovers, more than emotions, more than art, more than equality."
Some of them can't or don't know how to uphold that contract. And instead of recognizing the contract for what it is - a bad deal - they go looking for reasons for why they're failing to succeed. Feminists, gays, minorities, whatever. Anyone who seems to pushing back against the social grain, calling their contract into question. Where they should see allies, they see enemies.
Layered on top of this cultural issue is a biological reality: Some men have more testosterone and are more aggressive. They want more sex than they can get. They want to pick fights. Their insecurities feed these impulses.
I don't really know what to do with these young men. Talking to them via the Internet probably isn't the answer; it's too easy for them to retreat. Part of this is a cultural problem about white privilege that we need to resolve as a society; part of this is a parental problem where parents need to talk to their sons more and encourage them to be more open about their feelings; part of this is a media problem where the Internet lets *******s prey on the weak under the guise of "free speech."; part of this is a medical problem in how we relate to and treat mental health issues. The solution won't come from one place.
There are a lot of different ideas here, so it is difficult to discuss this as a cohesive piece.
If I were to try to break this down....are we talking about Dylan Roof and Elliot Rodger, or ALL white men? There are a lot of random things in here about mental illness and sexual frustration issues... and these are personal colorblind issues, that can effect anyone regardless of race or gender or anything else.
But, at the same time, this piece seems to want to convey the issues of these two white people to all white people...
And it looks like it is embedded in the argument, that if we say these two white people are not 'typical average' white people, than we are being individualistic, and taking on 'white priveledge'.
Society tells that them white men are top dogs socially and economically across the world. That makes them believe that they're entitled to any women they choose. We constantly reinforce imagery and ideology that expresses that men (especially white men) are owed whatever they want - including sex....
Pretty scary how groups of people can radicalize because they feel estranged from society and think that society owes them something, be it a job, respect, sex, success, etc. This is what happens when white people sacrifice social solidarity in the name of capitalistic pursuit....
It's interesting how you analyze this alleged phenomenon... almost as if you're trying to mold a preconceived theory to suit some political ideology or agenda, rather than to look for facts to validate a hypothesis and raise it to the level of a theory.
Last edited by Led Zeppelin; 02-08-2017 at 04:50 AM..
White men is the last punching bag but only certain white men. TS I dare you to start a topic generalizing and stereotyping black men to see how long your topic would survive PC scrutiny of moderators (the capricious zeal of whom is ultimately driven by litigious society enforcing particular thought uniformity) . Just a few days back I was forced to watch a stupid Adam Sanders comedy, what struck my eyes - black inmate cracking jokes about crackers and rednecks they most certainly feel superior to, I.e. the lowest segment of the black community feel superior to the whites you implicate in all that hatred just by virtue of a black inmate not being a ckracker redneck (all white men without cash are perceived as crackers, rednecks and white trash stereotypically speaking). As much as Hollywood is unrealistic and reality distorting that particular line is rooted in reality.
It is customary to assign white men without cash as the root of all evil in this country, i.e. powerless and moneyless men with white skin hold power over the direction this country goes and are to be blamed for everything that goes wrong. Powerless and moneyless black men are victims, for remote bleeding liberals, and the perpetrators for the rightwingers. Power and venerations goes up the food chain, derision and blame goes down. Nothing new. Stereotyping and scapegoating of white men with cash usually doesnt fly because humans of all creeds and colors hold cash as the ultimate measure of worth and good, and thus class war is unamerican. Scapegoats must have no attributes we as society hold dear. Also folks, please do not abuse the term "white privilege" without looking it up first. The white privilege has nothing to do with actual material provileges, it is just psychological conditioning lower class whites received, for example white skin is a privilege and therefore you should ask for nothing extra from moneyed classes since white folks of all classes are just one big happy family working together to advance Western Civilization. Gun culture of some lower class whites is nothing more than psychological compensation for all around comprehensive powerlessness they endure, it is just like Prozac or crack cocaine helping people to cope.
Last edited by RememberMee; 02-08-2017 at 06:28 AM..
PEOPLE who are alienated from society for whatever reason may become radicalized or influenced by a subculture that advocates violence as a means to 'self-soothe' or resolve personal issues. and they may go on to commit horrific crimes. Other than one particular whole 'culture' having a theocratic reason for engaging in all types of ways to try to destroy anyone other than their own kind, I don't think we should talk specifically about a COLOUR group or an AGE group doing this kind of thing and needing attention as a smaller group. Anyone is capable of it if the circumstances are such that they are weak, lonely and susceptible/the 'follower' type of mentality, feel alienated (whether they are or not) or have a mental illness - no matter what their age or skin tone may be.
It is divisive to start categorizing mass murderers into colour and/or age groups and trying to analyze them based on that criteria. That does no one any good.
It is a telling commentary on the right-wing nature of City Data's forums that this thread has basically been ignored.
Huh, I've seen some strong conservative views but the population here is heavily to the left from what I've seen. I think the reason this thread is being ignored is most people disagree with the OP's assertions and don't care enough to comment. This is coming from a person that voted for Hillary and Trump according to the Hillary and Trump supporters.
We have access to specific scholarships because currently we are under represented in scholarships, especially when it comes to PWC. It is not an advantage overall. The main beneficiary of affirmative action have been white women, so not entirely true there either. Again, even with these programs, black people still suffer in those aspects when compared to white people.
Do not feel guilty or think I am throwing shade. Your privilege is a matter of fact, a matter of American history and society. It just is.
You can say anything you want but at the end of the day white privilege does not exist anymore, this isn't post apartheid South Africa or the pre-Civil Rights era US. If a large segment of African Americans do not take advantage of the numerous opportunities that are available to them (ie college scholarships, preferential treatment of minority owned firms in regards to getting awarded certain contracts) because they either did not try hard enough in school or made other bad choices then that is on them. Actually right now Asian males right now are currently the group that earn the highest incomes in the US. Now are Asians somehow "privileged" as well or was it because they did things like study hard in school that made them successful (I can also throw in Nigerian Americans as well since they also have many of the same characteristics as far as education obtainment)? This is why terms like "white privileged" are stupid since they are so outdated and they are not even relevant in the 21st century.
Right or wrong, many "young white men" see the culture around them dramatically changing, particularly over the last decade.
I'm young-ish, at 30, but I hardly recognize this country from how I grew up. Maybe growing up in a small town in Tennessee and spending a lot of time with my grandparents and their peers altered my perspective, and maybe I would have far different perspectives had I grown up in a more cosmopolitan environment.
I never had many overtly political teachers, nor did I feel that the curriculum itself was political in any way. Over time, that has changed, even since I graduated high school in 2004. One of my public high school teachers provided a lot of advice and mentoring over the years, even during school, that would be viewed as highly inappropriate today. We'd often go for walks discussing religion and theology in depth - he had a second master's in divinity along with his English degree. Some of the comments I would make offhand during school were in poor taste, but today, I'd probably be sent to a psychiatrist or expelled for saying the same things.
The English teacher, who was a gifted man and could provide a lot more value to students than just literature education, was eventually forced out of the public schools. He wasn't into proselytizing anyone who didn't want to discuss these issues, but the public schools don't even want these issues discussed, and I'm sure he was deemed "radical."
Everything is far more sanitized than it was even fifteen years ago. A lot of us students would get into spirited political debates, but the curriculum itself didn't shape those views to the extent it does now. Today - virtually any discussion not in line with the orthodox belief system is shut down.
Looking back at that time, most of my peers' parents were productive working citizens. Looking at my peers who have grade school children now here in Tennessee, many are drug-addled, not working, with criminal records, etc. The best and brightest of my generation have generally moved off, and what we're left with is mostly an underclass that is not productive and probably not trainable for the jobs of tomorrow. When many of your peers are caught up in a cycle of addiction, rehab, jail, etc., it's easy to despair and fall into these same behaviors.
The downturn in the economy had something to do with it - many blue collar white men were basically kicked out of their jobs, and men especially tend to associate self-worth with an ability to provide financially for family, and to their jobs. My dad was laid off from a factory in 2008, and he's been stuck in a call center ever since - he hasn't recovered financially and I don't think he's recovered emotionally. He's basically biding time until he can collect SS in a few years. There is a lot of fallout still lingering from this, especially here in Appalachia where the economy has historically been weak.
There are tons of causes and many interplay with each other.
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