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K.. I understand that.. but then let's say there is the A School Distirct and then B School district. A School districit is better than B school distirct.. so of course all parents then want to send their students to A school .. but A school is fulll.. so then the "leftovers" who didn't get into A school.. for whatever reason or through whatever selection process is done.. school B now only has maybe 1/2 the school enrollment that it did. It's funding gets cut from teh state because now those tax dollars are going to school A... Now..school B still has funding from the other residents that live in the area without children.. that might work
And BTW.. I don't think where I live school taxes goes to the state to be given to SD based on enrollment numbers. Here your school taxes goes to the SD in which you reside.. that is why every school districts taxes are different based on the tax base and location. However a portion of money paid to NY state through other taxes..gets doled out to schools on some b
asis here..but not sure how.. from the state.
I do have a BIG problem, however, with taxes that would otherwise go to public schools going to private institutions. Currently private schools do not recieve any aid from the state and are solely on tuition and/or charitable donations. If you take from the public school system, the funding they recieve from taxes, state and government, you are then weakening the public school system for those that will be unable to make up the $10K difference between the taxes they pay for school and the tuition... and again.. that will put many schools and middle income families in those schools at a huge disadvantage and lock them out of ever getting into a private school due to lack of ability to pay.
If the School district is losing students because the SD is failing - then the leadership in that district better get on the stick and improve their district -
I would suggest to you that, if the PS in the are excelling, then far fewer parents would be inclined to take their children to a private school.
Why should a parent be forced to leave their child in a mediocre school when there are better alternatives available -
Additionally - if parents have to pay tuition - then, they will have to perhaps sacrifice a luxury - kids come first IMO.
Many parents will do what they have to for the betterment of their children -
And, you keep coming up with this "$10,000" difference - why? We have charter / magnet schools here that take the voucher as total tuition -
OBTW - I happen to live in an area where, in my property taxes, there is no allocation for school taxes.
If the School district is losing students because the SD is failing - then the leadership in that district better get on the stick and improve their district -
I would suggest to you that, if the PS in the are excelling, then far fewer parents would be inclined to take their children to a private school.
Why should a parent be forced to leave their child in a mediocre school when there are better alternatives available -
Additionally - if parents have to pay tuition - then, they will have to perhaps sacrifice a luxury - kids come first IMO.
Many parents will do what they have to for the betterment of their children -
And, you keep coming up with this "$10,000" difference - why? We have charter / magnet schools here that take the voucher as total tuition -
OBTW - I happen to live in an area where, in my property taxes, there is no allocation for school taxes.
The probelm is the "assumptions" of luxury..
I really don't have an extra $10K to cut in order to make tuition.. not many families do..
Remember that part of a families "expenses" should include college savings and retirment. Many who tout vouchers and public school privitization also tout SS privitization and that American's shold save for their own retirments. So.. perhaps in order to educate their children under the proposed plan of vouchers and privitization families will then have to sacrafice retirement and college savings..
And for a population s that is already chastised for "going into hock" for alot of things due to high cost of living and stagnant wages.. the suggestion of taking out "loans" to fund childrens elemntary and H.S educations ON TOP of the enormous College tuition is unrealistc and not very practical.
It all goes back to this.. all those parents that can afford private school by all means send your child to private school No one is saying that you can not.. In no way , shape or for should private school recieve local, state or federal funding for their endeavors, since they charge their students a tuition. If those private schools also want to extend a charitable scholarship to underprivledged students that are excelling in otherwise poor SD's than I'm all for it..
And a voucher system within public school systems is not a bad thing.. it's when you introduce privitization that muddles it all.
As for a poor performing SD.. teh parents DO have the power to make changes should they feel that their schools are underperforming. The problem is that not enough ARE doing what they need to do. School boards are elected, not appointed or hired.. and they have the power to fire supers, principles etc. that are not doing their jobs. If a school is underperforming it us up to the community to raise all hell and make it change.. Simply because it's a PS doesn't mean that the change can not and will not occurr. The problem is that parents aren't looking to themselves and their local communities to make the positive changes needed.
I really don't have an extra $10K to cut in order to make tuition.. not many families do..
Remember that part of a families "expenses" should include college savings and retirment. Many who tout vouchers and public school privitization also tout SS privitization and that American's shold save for their own retirments. So.. perhaps in order to educate their children under the proposed plan of vouchers and privitization families will then have to sacrafice retirement and college savings..
And for a population s that is already chastised for "going into hock" for alot of things due to high cost of living and stagnant wages.. the suggestion of taking out "loans" to fund childrens elemntary and H.S educations ON TOP of the enormous College tuition is unrealistc and not very practical.
It all goes back to this.. all those parents that can afford private school by all means send your child to private school No one is saying that you can not.. In no way , shape or for should private school recieve local, state or federal funding for their endeavors, since they charge their students a tuition. If those private schools also want to extend a charitable scholarship to underprivledged students that are excelling in otherwise poor SD's than I'm all for it..
And a voucher system within public school systems is not a bad thing.. it's when you introduce privitization that muddles it all.
As for a poor performing SD.. teh parents DO have the power to make changes should they feel that their schools are underperforming. The problem is that not enough ARE doing what they need to do. School boards are elected, not appointed or hired.. and they have the power to fire supers, principles etc. that are not doing their jobs. If a school is underperforming it us up to the community to raise all hell and make it change.. Simply because it's a PS doesn't mean that the change can not and will not occurr. The problem is that parents aren't looking to themselves and their local communities to make the positive changes needed.
Well - all I can say is, things must be really screwed up in New York - for we don't have near the issues you try to spew -
And, tax money is already going to private schools TM - and has for years - at least here.
And, correcting problems / deficiencies in public schools can take years - parents don't have the luxury of waiting years - their childrens futures are at stake
And, I'd love to see proof of your statement; "... Many who tout vouchers and public school privitization also tout SS privitization ..." Please - could you provide a link to this to back up your statement / assertion / allegation?
And again - it must be a New York thing for many of our private / charter / magnet schools take, as full tuition, vouchers.
Well - all I can say is, things must be really screwed up in New York - for we don't have near the issues you try to spew -
And, tax money is already going to private schools TM - and has for years - at least here.
And, correcting problems / deficiencies in public schools can take years - parents don't have the luxury of waiting years - their childrens futures are at stake
And, I'd love to see proof of your statement; "... Many who tout vouchers and public school privitization also tout SS privitization ..." Please - could you provide a link to this to back up your statement / assertion / allegation?
And again - it must be a New York thing for many of our private / charter / magnet schools take, as full tuition, vouchers.
That's why i say that voucher programs will not work all over the country. If you have it , then why are you arguing that we should have it if it already exists. I'm not understanding if it exists why is there even an argument about it or it's merits?
As for NY schools, I'd hardly called them "screwed up". quite the contrary.. LI public schools are some of the most sought after SD. Our public school system works. The taxes we pay go to our local school district, our board is elected. We have, out of all the districts on LI , only I believe 2 that had to be taken over by the state for underperformance and I believe one of them was Roosevelt and I don't recall what the other was..and the one I can't recall was actually turned around and removed fromt he list a year later
Changing public schools doesn ot take "years" . Please show me proof of that. Elections are held yearly, budget votes are brought up to the public yearly. Mind you , we are not without our problems that are contributing to our inflated cost of education here as reflected in our high property taxes, but in my initial post I spelled out what those were and that they needed to be addressed on the local level.. and has nothing to do with voucher programs.
The last statement you bolded refers to many on these boards from observation.. and usually those same group of people want to privitized everything etc.
In order to argue that the public school system is failing and that it needs to be privatized you need to offer proof of it's failues, to which no one has yet to point out any proof that public schools are actually failing whereas I ahve sited two seperate studies showing that private schools are no more succesfull than public. There may be some instances of failed public schools on a local level adn that is on the local community to take action..wether it be to start a voucher program that crosses districts or electing new board members and hiring new staff members. Currenty, in NY , private instituations can not recieve public funding, nor should they. vouchers do not exist here..if you can afford to put your chhild in private school you do, if you don't you use the public school system.
Again.. I'm not understanding..if it exists in your part of the country... we are even having a debate. Does not this debate then belong on local boards that do not have such a system?
Last edited by TristansMommy; 09-21-2008 at 11:09 AM..
Question: Why are parents wanting to pull their children out of public schools in so many areas of the country today (such as LA, Chicago, Philly etc)???
Question: Why is Home Schooling becoming so popular as an alternative for parents today?
Question: Why are parents wanting to pull their children out of public schools in so many areas of the country today (such as LA, Chicago, Philly etc)???
Question: Why is Home Schooling becoming so popular as an alternative for parents today?
GreatDay.. show me the numbers that show that.. saying so doesn't make it so. I don't know if what you are saying is true or just speculation. You haven't backed either of those statements up with any proof.
And if that is the case, then you need to look at which areas are turning to that and why? How is that district being run in that area. Does it run along socio economic lines..etc.
Because here what you are claiming is occurring in other parts of the country are not occuring here. I'm not tyring to be difficult, but I would like to see some substantial data to back up your claims in your above post.
I did notice, however, that the cities you listed are just that. . cities.. There tends to be huge diversity within city limites between the poor, working poor and the wealthy sharing a small space together..
Last edited by TristansMommy; 09-21-2008 at 12:41 PM..
Please don't mis-understand, I am all for public funding & public education. I just think the dollars should follow the child to wherever (within reasonable limits) the child's parent wants to send the child. My goal is to create competition so education gets better and give parents more options & flexibility to educate there children.
So far the empirical evidence is that this doesn't produce better results.
We have them too and they are a good thing. It pretty much debunks the myth that the problem with our public schools is the teacher union.
While that might be the case in your region - in my region (Nevada / Clark County) - the Union HAS BEEN the problem - hence why teachers are leaving the union -
I think the angle of the OP also turns me off to the idea, to some degree. THe angle from her is NOT what is in the best interest of the children , per say.. but the fact that she doesn't want to pay for public education within her tax bill as she feels that it doesn't benefit her (although many have pointe dout that having a nation of educated children benefits everyone ).
First of all, I'm not a "she". My proposal/debate was clearly stated originally when I mentioned that private schools are far superior in standards compared to the public system ... and there are valid reasons for that. Like any other business, private schools can compete with each other for better results. Furthermore, parents who send their kids to the private schools tend to be more involved in what's going on inside the schools. Part of that is because they are rightfully concerned, and the other reason is money. Like it or not, money is a motivator ... and when you're paying for tuition, books, and supplies out of your own pocket, that alone motivates you to see to it that you're getting the most bang for your buck ... or in this case, see that your children are getting the best education that your money can buy.
So your assumption that I don't have the children's best interest in mind is incorrect. I have brought out numerous reasons why the public system has failed ... and I've even related my own experiences comparing the public & private schools that I attended when I was young. What upsets me is that people with children in the public schools seem to think that everybody else should be obligated to pay. You really need to understand how burdening this is to those who don't have kids. Parents are eligible for tax credits, and many other types of assistance. I'm paying taxes for everybody else, but I receive NO tax credits, and NO assistance. Frankly, I don't want, nor expect these types of things ... but nobody else should either just because they have children.
I will admit that I overlooked one of your postings about how much money you pay in property taxes. I knew that New York had higher taxes than Arizona ... but I went back & read that your tax bill is over $7,000 a year. That's absolutely outrageous! With that in mind, I completely understand why you would have a difficult time affording private school ... but at the same time, I think you're getting ripped off. Property taxes here are much lower, but even $1,100 per year just for schools is ridiculous enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy
And I'm definately opposed to privitization of the schools.
What would you think of this idea: keep the system public on a local level only, but only those with kids who USE the public schools should pay the taxes. Also, keep the system open to charitable donations for those who want to contribute money, time, or supplies to the schools. In your case, that means your tax bill would remain virtually unchanged ... but those without kids wouldn't be obligated to pay unless they wanted to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
The OP has a definite anti-child bias.
Not necessarily an anti CHILD bias ... just an anti tax bias. When a good share of the savings I accumulate during the year has to be blown on taxes to support people who aren't my responsibility ... and when our tax dollars are being used for all these bailouts of failed financial firms, and those who didn't take responsibility for their careless actions, I really have more of an anti STUPIDITY bias.
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