Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Should we also avoid teaching children about heterosexual families because heterosexual couples also frequently engage in sodomy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by latetotheparty
How is this promoting homosexuality??
“We are not telling anyone what to think,” Jensen said. “We are letting children know that gay people exist and they deserve to be treated with respect, regardless of whether or not you believe that homosexuality is acceptable
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2009/05/99442/#mHIuLHLRo544XiT0.99
It doesn't promote homosexuality. Apparently some people are anti-tolerance.
“We are not telling anyone what to think,” Jensen said. “We are letting children know that gay people exist and they deserve to be treated with respect, regardless of whether or not you believe that homosexuality is acceptable
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2009/05/99442/#mHIuLHLRo544XiT0.99
Believe me, I'm not saying it does. But that is how it ends up being reported. Its probably why some actually think that kindergartners in public school are being taught about sexual acts or the gay "lifestyle".
Should we also avoid teaching children about heterosexual families because heterosexual couples also frequently engage in sodomy?
It doesn't promote homosexuality. Apparently some people are anti-tolerance.
But what would Jesus do?
Since the sexual desire to be with another man (in a M-M gay relationship) and the sexual acts are part of the relationship, they are the defining part of the difference between M-F and homosexuals.
So maybe you are comfortable breaking down sodomy and maybe you can also let them know that sodomy is and how beautiful and natural it is.
Yeah tolerance? Just like the tolerance you have towards people who fundamentally have religious objections to the practice of sodomy and the lifestyle? We also have laws on the books that outlaw sodomy in some area of the country. Couldn't I factually say they commence in illegal activity in the bedroom?
Should we also avoid teaching children about heterosexual families because heterosexual couples also frequently engage in sodomy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by derosterreich
Since the sexual desire to be with another man (in a M-M gay relationship) and the sexual acts are part of the relationship, they are the defining part of the difference between M-F and homosexuals.
Respectfully, I disagree with your logic here, derosterreich. You're articulating a false equivalency.
The sexual acts of homosexuals are, as you say, part of a same-sex relationship. But it's the fact of the partners being of the same biological sex that is the defining factor. Just as while the sexual acts of heterosexuals are part of an opposite-sex relationship, it's the fact of the partners being of opposite biologcal sexes that defines those unions.
Moving on to the OP's question:
Preoccupation with the sexual aspect of homosexual relationships is a heterosexual phenomenon. Ask any gay man or woman what defines their relationships and I can guarantee you that sex will not be the first thing they mention. This should be considered before condemning the introduction of same-sex families to young children. Gay people aren't making it about sex, so neither should straights. Also, young kids take comparisons at face value. They haven't yet developed the cognitive faculties to do otherwise. If kids are taught that families with same-sex parents are the same as families with opposite-sex parents, they will only focus on the general concept of "family" unless a grown-up adds sexuality to the discussion. This would be inappropriate for young kids no matter what kind of sex it is, and it's not what is being added to elementary school curriculums. Nobody, gay or straight, who has children would want that.
Not only are younger kids only cognitively equipped to take things at face value...they are also only able to see things from a child's POV. Instruction in appreciating different types of families doesn't suggest to kids that they should go start one of their own. It teaches them to appreciate different types of families. One of the biggest flaws in most arguments against this exposure is that they fail to consider that kids don't think like adults do. It's a developmental fact.
Even if you don't approve of homosexuality, you certainly shouldn't approve of your child being unkind to another. Basic education about different types of famlilies promotes the equal treatment of children with same-sex parents as well as kids who may be gay themselves. I can't think of any reason why learning to treat everyone fairly could be a bad thing for anyone.
If parents see homosexuality as immoral, how is a child to interpret contradictory messages coming from a highly respected authority figure - the recipient of all those apples, the teacher? A seed has been sewn designed to rip a chasm between the child’s two worlds: home and school; as the rebellious years of adolescence approach a doubt has been raised in the child’s mind about whether or not their parents are wrong.
Part of adolescence is learning to think for yourself. The more cognitively developed kids become, the more they question everything around them, their parents' authority included. Parents and school, church and school, parents and church...young people are exposed to conflicting perspectives every day. Reconciling these conflicts and developing an independent world view is a healthy thing. And that includes deciding your parents are wrong sometimes. Not about homosexuality, per se, but just in general. If parents foster a good relationship with their children, a possible disagreement about one issue won't threaten those bonds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bashful Bob
Deerfield High School in Deerfield, Illinois, recently assigned the pornographic book “Angels in America: A Gay Fantasia on National Themes ” to students 14 and up as required reading. THIS CAME FROM AN ARTICLE The Gay Agenda in Public Schools - I WON'T POST THE URL TO AVOID IT APPEARING AS SPAM
The title of the article should be a hint that it may not be objective journalism. I have mixed feelings about the inclusion of the play in the school's curriculum, but you should be aware of these facts which were distorted by your source:
The play was not assigned required reading for all students. It was offered only to seniors in an advanced-placement class, and parents were welcome to opt out of their kids reading it. Later, after complaints from some parents, it was instead made an opt-IN selection, meaning parents had to specifically say they did want their kids to read it. The play and the class curricula were approved by the Advanced Placement College Board, and it was not taught until the very end of the senior year, less than six months before the students would be going to college.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bashful Bob
{ The U.S. Centers for Disease Control estimates that four percent of the male population is homosexual or bisexual yet they account for 78 percent of new HIV infections }
The continued prevalence of new HIV infections among gay males is actually an excellent argument for including info for gay teens in school sex education/safe sex curriculums. Young gay and bisexual males are going to have sex. Provided you agree that heterosexual sex ed is okay, what possible reason could you have for not wanting gay kids to also have sex ed opportunities in school after looking at this statistic?
As pertains to the passage in the "Angels In America" play that you tied this statistic to, the story describes the consequences of unsafe sex. That's the point of it. The play is a meditation on life, death, morality, and decency in a society that is increasingly apathetic about human life. THAT'S why it was approved for the curriculum. The perspective and the overarching themes, not a few raw passages that underscore them. The play won a Pulitzer prize, so it's not just gay smut.
No one said people deny it exists. This was a debate over public school's role in promoting alternative lifestyles.
The ick factor? That is cute, but partially valid. I don't want to think about it, it personally is something that repulses me (the copulation). Out of sight out of mind, of course - Much more pleasant. Can we address the elephant in the room please? If you want to actually define homosexuality, it is the sexual attraction to the same sex. That is what is major difference between the hetero/homo lifestyle and families.
So, to some extent you are right. Keep it away, the less I have to see something I don't like the better. The reason we gravitate towards things that induce positive emotions/reactions/thoughts is the same reason we avoid do the opposite for unpleasant things.
If I don't something, I don't indulge. If I do, I do. It is pretty basic....
How is the school promoting anything by simply stating facts?
Homosexuals exist. Stating the fact that homosexuals exist is not promoting homosexuality. Just like stating that bees are pollinators does not promote pollination.
Telling children that some kids have two moms, or two dads, is not going to make them gay. Telling kids that some people are homosexual will not make them gay. You said it yourself "If I don't something, I don't indulge. If I do, I do." The same goes for everyone else. Does knowing that there are homosexuals make you suddenly want to be gay?
I dont hate gays. I really didn't want this to become a bashing post.
I am a Christian and I don't agree w/ the lifestyle but I don't hate gays. I've been friends with gay people.
In fact, I know it's not a choice to have same-sex attraction. (I've worked with kids who were gay.) To me, its a sin to act out on it, and make the lifestyle choice to act out on it. I know of several CHristians who have unwanted same sex attraction. And I do support programs such as "Love Won Out"
Okay, let's get back to the subject.
How do you feel on the matter?
You are bashing. You are choosing ignorance over education and information. Apparently you are buying into the sensationalized propaganda spread by the religious right in Massachusetts. Being gay is not a "lifestyle" it is a life. The reason why there is so much ignorance regarding sexual orientation is because traditionally the masses were never taught about issues surrounding sexual orientation in the first place. What you appear to want is to continue perpetuating this ignorance that is handed down by the religious right to promote hate through misinformation, lies, and stereotypes. Then you wonder why people bash poor innocent Christians?? Could it be because so many of you have insisted on maintaining a false and irrational perspective of gays in general, and believe if you don't teach your children to hate or at least be intolerant, that somehow being gay will be accepted?
One thing is for sure, your people are going to lose on this one. You can watch your 700 Club all you want, but be aware you are part of a shrinking minority. People continue to be more enlightened and refuse to maintain this stupidity you insist on believing, which is that homosexuality has something to do with being deviant or immoral.
One thing is for sure, your people are going to lose on this one. You can watch your 700 Club all you want, but be aware you are part of a shrinking minority. People continue to be more enlightened and refuse to maintain this stupidity you insist on believing, which is that homosexuality has something to do with being deviant or immoral.
Don't people get to choose their own morality? Who gets to say for sure that something is moral or immoral?
If you can say that something is moral and acceptable, then another person gets to disagree with you. And vice versa.
Like all issues, there will always be some for and some against. You don't have to agree but by what right are you going to disallow someone's thoughts about a certain issue?
I tend to find my own viewpoint about a matter and then allow other people to find their own viewpoint. It takes a certain amount of mental/emotional/spiritual maturity to accept the fact that people will always have differing opinions about things.
Quote:
Preoccupation with the sexual aspect of homosexual relationships is a heterosexual phenomenon. Ask any gay man or woman what defines their relationships and I can guarantee you that sex will not be the first thing they mention.
Take away the sexual aspect of any romantic relationship, then what do you have left? Wouldn't you have people interacting in ways that are not homosexual/heterosexual per se but instead, people behaving in ways that are universally human? No titles required.
I don't mean for this to sound sarcastic or smart-mouth, but...
When I was in school, we were generally told not to bully people regardless of the reason. You know... follow the Golden Rule; do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I don't have any problem with people talking about gay couples in the classroom, but it seems like not making fun of homosexual kids should also fall under the general rule. I would never want to feel like there was something wrong with me or my family just because we were different from the norm, and so I would never want to make a child to feel like something is wrong with them or their family regardless of my beliefs. From my perspective, the people who try to outlaw discussions of homosexuals in school are the ones forcing their beliefs down other people's throats. I always find it amazingly ironic when they cry that is what the "gay agenda" is doing when they are the ones who are the most militant about having their beliefs enforced by law.
It all seems like a pointless argument to me... There are some things that as a Christian I personally don't condone, but I'm not going to go out of my way to ruin someone else's life just because they either interpret the Bible differently or are of a completely different set of beliefs. I think we should take any threat to someone's pursuit of happiness personally regardless of whether we agree with it or not--America is about having the freedom to determine for ourselves what makes us happy and live accordingly rather than be forced to live by one set of values predetermined by others. I think people who act as if their freedoms are forfeit should someone else dare try to obtain the same self-value and self-determination they enjoy are the ones who need to seriously re-evaluate themselves. Trying to force homosexuals back into the closet or stigmatizing them in public education or any other public sector flies in the face of all the values that make me love America. It doesn't matter if we agree or disagree; by virtue of being Americans I find solidarity in their struggle for basic equality and I find it repugnant that any other American would be so set to destroy someone else's freedom.
Is homosexuality a sin according to Christianity? I really don't give a damn. That has nothing to do with my ability to empathize with the innate desire of other human beings to live without coercion. So I say let the children know that other families exist beyond the standard nuclear family. Let them know that some of their school mates have homosexual parents or are homosexuals themselves, and let them learn to accept that as a normality on the grounds that we live in a free society which enables people to live the way that makes them happy. I do not accept a stigma against homosexuals being enforced through exclusion in the classroom anymore than I would accept such a stigma being enforced against Christians or any other group. The Golden Rule is what motivates me to say these things--a rule derived from Christianity which is tragically subverted or ignored by many other Christians. I will not do unto others things which I would not have them do unto me.
... Sorry, I ranted a little bit...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
