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Old 04-15-2009, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Back in New York
1,104 posts, read 3,321,597 times
Reputation: 843

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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow View Post
Where did I say no one should ever vent or give an opinion and how come you seem to think yours is more valid than mine? Just curious not trying to get into a fisty cuffs over it.

As to people's religious beliefs and practices, again I'll say, in my opinion it's entirely their right to believe and practice as they so choose, just as it is my right to believe and practice (or not) as I choose.

Now you state that you think it's dangerous that people go along with a religion without questioning it but you've also railed against Catholics for not following their religion to the letter either (ie not going along with it) so to me it's just looking like you're picking and choosing what to get pissy about.

When it comes to religion and faith or athiesm/agnosticism, this is one of the fundamentals of human beings that all of us have to make a decision about on a basic level and I agree that religion can translate into laws being passed and freedoms being taken away but and I did mention that I live in a more secular society (in other words it's not as big an issue here because if religion attempts to push to change laws that will dictate to the rest of us, even the more moderate RELIGIONS tend to put a stop to it pretty quick. Different deal in America I know) let's face it in the Western world today we are at more threat of being dictated to and having laws changed by the holy faith of consumerism and big business.

Now if you want to go after big church and big business I say go for it but if you want to slag off at Joe Catholic or Monty Muslim or any other person who are just interpreting their faith in a way that makes sense to them, then I find that just as misguided and dangerous, if not more so, than not eating fish on Fridays and not knowing why.
While I dont believe in Cathlosicm or any organized religion I have way more respect for those who follow it to a tee because they are not half assed and wishy washy. They truly believe in it! PPL that are wishy washy to me are the scariest because they lack conviction for what they believe. It shows a complete lack of confidence. They are just "farts in the wind" and believe everything they hear on the news too I am sure. I have been around long enough to know the type.
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Old 04-15-2009, 08:21 PM
 
9,912 posts, read 12,183,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleanCutHippie View Post
While I dont believe in Cathlosicm or any organized religion I have way more respect for those who follow it to a tee because they are not half assed and wishy washy. They truly believe in it! PPL that are wishy washy to me are the scariest because they lack conviction for what they believe. It shows a complete lack of confidence. They are just "farts in the wind" and believe everything they hear on the news too I am sure. I have been around long enough to know the type.
I find that sad. I have way more respect for people that don't have blind faith because as far as I can see that leads to extremism. I can only liken what you are saying here to the blind faith that many showed with regard to the previous American government and the kind of hell and fury that rained down on the world because of that blind faith. It's also a little sad that you're not seeing that comments like "I've been around long enough to know the type" are just sweeping generalizations, which imo are equally as dangerous, if not more so.
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Old 04-15-2009, 08:30 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,013,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleanCutHippie View Post
While I dont believe in Cathlosicm or any organized religion I have way more respect for those who follow it to a tee because they are not half assed and wishy washy. They truly believe in it! PPL that are wishy washy to me are the scariest because they lack conviction for what they believe. It shows a complete lack of confidence. They are just "farts in the wind" and believe everything they hear on the news too I am sure. I have been around long enough to know the type.
If you uinderstood any christians you would know we are all sinners. Try as we might;we faulter.Even the churches;not just Catholic;always in every service I have been to ; ask for forgiveness of the churches sins. So we are all wishy washy at times I guess.
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Old 04-16-2009, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Back in New York
1,104 posts, read 3,321,597 times
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[quote=moonshadow;8363927]I find that sad. I have way more respect for people that don't have blind faith because as far as I can see that leads to extremism. I can only liken what you are saying here to the blind faith that many showed with regard to the previous American government and the kind of hell and fury that rained down on the world because of that blind faith. It's also a little sad that you're not seeing that comments like "I've been around long enough to know the type" are just sweeping generalizations, which imo are equally as dangerous, if not more so.
[/quote}

Being wishy washy to me is a sign of not knowing who you are or having an identity. These types of ppl can be swayed by whatever the mass media tells them. That is real sad and dangerous. If you follow something it might be a good idea to know what your following and why. Most Catholics have absolutely no clue what or why they are doing things. Its not a sweeping generalazation when I have learned this about the particular type I am refering too over the course of a lifetime. A lifetime which included going to church and religious classes before learning that organized religion was not for me.
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Old 04-16-2009, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Back in New York
1,104 posts, read 3,321,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
If you uinderstood any christians you would know we are all sinners. Try as we might;we faulter.Even the churches;not just Catholic;always in every service I have been to ; ask for forgiveness of the churches sins. So we are all wishy washy at times I guess.
Of course they are all "sinners" but that means to not even try to follow? "Ah I will sin all week, but ask for forgiveness". Why bother following it then?...lol. For many of the catholics in my area going to church is too much effort. Not eating meat is ok and gives them an excuse to shove pizza down their throat...lol
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Old 04-16-2009, 11:21 PM
 
9,912 posts, read 12,183,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleanCutHippie View Post
Being wishy washy to me is a sign of not knowing who you are or having an identity. These types of ppl can be swayed by whatever the mass media tells them. That is real sad and dangerous. If you follow something it might be a good idea to know what your following and why. Most Catholics have absolutely no clue what or why they are doing things. Its not a sweeping generalization when I have learned this about the particular type I am referring too over the course of a lifetime. A lifetime which included going to church and religious classes before learning that organized religion was not for me.
Conversely being absolute and adamant reeks an awful lot like needing power and control to me. I disagree that most Catholics blindly follow their church leaders on all things, and you said as much yourself earlier when you berated them for eating fish on Fridays and then behaving poorly the rest of the week. Clearly those people are choosing which of the church's doctrines to follow and which ones don't suit them. I appreciate that if you've spent time in your life being a part of a religion and then rejecting it that as part of walking away it's important to you to reject ALL that encompasses and to consider that your experience in this regard is the only experience that is true and correct however as my experience is very different to your own and neither of us will ever be able to discuss the personal motivations and mindset of Catholicism with every single Catholic on the planet I'd suggest that both of us are speaking from completely different perspectives anectodally and there is no right or wrong here.

There is what you see and believe to be correct and there is what I see and believe to be correct. I guess the real difference between us is that based on your experience you appear to have come up with absolutes that you are attributing to ALL and you need absolutes because you attribute anything less as wishy washy and you deem that dangerous.

Based on my experiences I have learned this is a very black and white way of looking at the world and tends to narrow my thinking and marginalize other points of view, which in turn I would consider very dangerous because it is not possible for me to know and understand or identify with the motivations of every other person on the planet and I could potentially be missing out on some very valuable thinking and perspective which could open my eyes and mind to other ways.

To you this would be wishy washy, to me it is attempting above all else to walk a mile in another's shoes and be as unbiased as I can about other people I know nothing about, whose actions are NOT adversely affecting my life.
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Old 04-18-2009, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Back in New York
1,104 posts, read 3,321,597 times
Reputation: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshadow View Post
Conversely being absolute and adamant reeks an awful lot like needing power and control to me. I disagree that most Catholics blindly follow their church leaders on all things, and you said as much yourself earlier when you berated them for eating fish on Fridays and then behaving poorly the rest of the week. Clearly those people are choosing which of the church's doctrines to follow and which ones don't suit them. I appreciate that if you've spent time in your life being a part of a religion and then rejecting it that as part of walking away it's important to you to reject ALL that encompasses and to consider that your experience in this regard is the only experience that is true and correct however as my experience is very different to your own and neither of us will ever be able to discuss the personal motivations and mindset of Catholicism with every single Catholic on the planet I'd suggest that both of us are speaking from completely different perspectives anectodally and there is no right or wrong here.

There is what you see and believe to be correct and there is what I see and believe to be correct. I guess the real difference between us is that based on your experience you appear to have come up with absolutes that you are attributing to ALL and you need absolutes because you attribute anything less as wishy washy and you deem that dangerous.

Based on my experiences I have learned this is a very black and white way of looking at the world and tends to narrow my thinking and marginalize other points of view, which in turn I would consider very dangerous because it is not possible for me to know and understand or identify with the motivations of every other person on the planet and I could potentially be missing out on some very valuable thinking and perspective which could open my eyes and mind to other ways.

To you this would be wishy washy, to me it is attempting above all else to walk a mile in another's shoes and be as unbiased as I can about other people I know nothing about, whose actions are NOT adversely affecting my life.

Most Catholics dont follow the church leaders, exactly the point. Why even bother? It makes no sense. I believe many of the ppl I am reffering too went through a similiar experience to me but for reasons only known to them decide to be half assed catholics instead of having the brains to just stop wasting their own time and breaking free completely of organized religion. I have noticed younger generations seem to have been able to let go of organized religion and accept the fact that what the churches preaches/teaches does not make sense. This is a good thing as it shows more independent thinkers BUT if you are going to follow a religion you should do so completely as they ask otherwise dont waste your time.
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Old 04-18-2009, 08:38 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,457,074 times
Reputation: 3868
Quote:
Originally Posted by CleanCutHippie View Post
I am so relieved that Good Friday and all the Fridays leading up to Easter are gone. Every year I get so sick of all the phonies who won't eat meat on Fridays and think they are practicing Catholics...lmao. They cheat on their spouse, beat their kids, lie and steal but if they don't eat meat a few Fridays out of the ear they are good people. If you believe in a religion, follow it. I am so sick of these half a**ed Christians/Catholics. While I am not fond of the fundamentalists either at least they follow their religion more thouroughly!
Sounds to me like you've just got a bad attitude and want to do some complaining.

I'm with you on the hypocrisy of SOME people. But honestly, what does any of that have to do with YOU?
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Old 04-18-2009, 08:43 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,457,074 times
Reputation: 3868
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
So everyone is getting on CleanCuts case. Why? I agree with him. Probably because he is right. Most people who claim to be religious will leave church Sunday morning cutting off other motorists and giving them the finger and cursing them as they beep back. After church they go to Walmart and while buying Chinese made trash which causes more Americans to lose their jobs, they are watching their thug punk kids smashing the cupcakes and opening candy on the isles, and eating it without paying.

Then they go to work Monday morning, take 10 smoke breaks outside while others dont and everyone gets paid the same. They log onto City Data making posts while they are on the clock cheating the boss. At lunch they talk trash with friends and co-workers using language that they asked God to forgive them for saying on Sunday. So they get home at night and are short with their kids and their spouse because they had a bad day. Maybe turn on a little porn before bed hoping to get the spouse in the mood, when they say no another fight ensues, they go to bed mad while fantasizing about some one else more pretty, more hansome, some one who puts out rather then the slug next to them.

They argue and dislike others who have different opinions their own.

They are 2 faced.

Then when some one like CleanCutHippy comes along and speaks up about this inconsistancy among the so called religious people, it hits a sore spot. Deep down many people know they have 2 faces but can not bring themself to admit it. In this case I suspect these people are the ones who are bad mouthing CleanCutHippy who speaks truth.

What I really don't understand is people who, out of complete ignorance, make broad sweeping judgments and condemnations of people they don't know.

So you've had somebody cut you off in traffic, and flip you the bird, on a Sunday - and you assume that that person was just leaving church? That's absurd.

And you see people shopping at WalMart on a Sunday - which shows that you to are shopping there - and you assume that those people just left church? Or you assume that the 11th Commandment is "Thou shalt not shop at WalMart". That too is absurd.


All you've done here is provide us an insight into your anti-Christian hatred.
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Old 04-18-2009, 08:45 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,457,074 times
Reputation: 3868
Quote:
Originally Posted by CleanCutHippie View Post
Being wishy washy to me is a sign of not knowing who you are or having an identity. These types of ppl can be swayed by whatever the mass media tells them. That is real sad and dangerous. If you follow something it might be a good idea to know what your following and why. Most Catholics have absolutely no clue what or why they are doing things. Its not a sweeping generalazation when I have learned this about the particular type I am refering too over the course of a lifetime. A lifetime which included going to church and religious classes before learning that organized religion was not for me.
Thank you for that clear confession of what this whole thread is really all about. It's about you're personal vendetta.
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