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The simple imposition of restrictions on carrying a weapon - in any manner - goes directly against the letter and spirit of the Constitution. You can claim that this thread "has nothing to do with 2nd Amendment rights," but you're wrong. It has EVERYTHING to do with the 2nd Amendment.
I specifically address your claim that someone's credit report should be able to keep them from exercising a Constitutional right, and you somehow expand that to mean that I want "crips" and "bloods" carrying legally? Wow. You're nuts.
Oh, wait, so you are going off topic with 2nd amendment info? Im trying to stay on topic with this thread which is about CONCEALED CARRY PERMITS. I made no such claim about someone's credit rating prohibiting them from owning a firearm. Go back and re-read my post. Owning a firearm and obtaining a concealed carry permit are TWO TOTALLY SEPARATE THINGS. Lets make it clear so as to prevent any further misundertanding on your part - a persons credit rating should NEVER EVER impact or affect, in any way shape or form, their RIGHT to own a gun. However, I am for strong controls for those individuals who want to obtain CONCEALED CARRY PERMITS. You do understand that these are not related in any way right? There are millions of us law abiding American citizens who own firearms, but there are not that many who have concealed carry permits.
Oh, wait, so you are going off topic with 2nd amendment info?
No.
Until you recognize that the imposition of a CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT (emphasis yours) is an unconstitutional requirement, there's no point in reading any further into your response than that first sentence.
You're trying to make a distinction between ownership of a firearm and the carrying of it, as the 2nd Amendment relates to it. There isn't any. "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is pretty straightforward. Requiring someone that can legally own a gun to obtain a special permit in order to carry that gun - whether open or concealed - is infringement, plain and simple. Until you "get" that, there's no point in continuing to try to converse with you about it.
I agree that all potential gun owners / handlers need to have handgun safety training and be required to take a course (if necessary) before being allowed to purchase. The worse gun owner is an uneducated and untrained one.
I have experience with handguns and rifles, have a permit to carry (although I don't in most cases), and am quite comfortable handling my gun or any for that matter.
Here is what I think; an armed society makes for a more civil society.
Until you recognize that the imposition of a CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT (emphasis yours) is an unconstitutional requirement, there's no point in reading any further into your response than that first sentence.
You're trying to make a distinction between ownership of a firearm and the carrying of it, as the 2nd Amendment relates to it. There isn't any. "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is pretty straightforward. Requiring someone that can legally own a gun to obtain a special permit in order to carry that gun - whether open or concealed - is infringement, plain and simple. Until you "get" that, there's no point in continuing to try to converse with you about it.
On a related note, I can't wait until there is a court challenge to Tennessee and Montana's new gun laws. I hope it opens the door that a LOT of our federal laws are unconstitutional.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreaspercheron
I agree that all potential gun owners / handlers need to have handgun safety training and be required to take a course (if necessary) before being allowed to purchase. The worse gun owner is an uneducated and untrained one.
I've never had any formal gun training and I am a CCW permit holder. On the other hand, my mother-in-law had to go through both classroom training as well as shooting training and a proficiency test. Ask my wife who she who she would rather have on her side if the SHTF. Traing isn't everything. But I also know how serious it is to own and carry so I am torn on this subject.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoTzuMindFu
Im just saying that lets NOT give concealed carry permits to people who are known members of the Crips, Bloods, Aryan Nation, KKK, MS13, etc. Its already our militarys policy to NOT accept or recruit these types of folks, so Im just saying lets not give them permits for concealed carry.
Are you going to check their national membership roster? As for the military, that is a completely different subject. You voluntarily give up some of your rights while you are serving. You also need to be a cohesive unit in combat situations and having WHITE POWER tattooed on your chest might cause a rift with some of our brave men and women of color. As a civilian, that same person should not have his rights denied just because he defaced his body. As long as a member meets the requirements for gun ownership and carry, he should be allowed. That is freedom.
First off, I don't carry a gun, not do I have any plans to.---My question is, should a person have the right to carry a hand gun, if they can't afford to pay for the classes, or purchase the permit. Or to go one step further, just doesn't want to have to go through the red tape, and be on a list of gun owners. And should convicted Felons, that has completed his terms of release, have the same right to defend his Home and family like everybody else, by owning a Gun? Or is he to be forever banned from his right to self defense for himself, and his family.---At one time, we had the "Poll tax." People could only vote if they could afford the tax. this was struck down in court as being Unconstitutional.
A person should and doesnt have a legal right to carry a handgun concealed UNLESS they have taken the proper course and has a valid permit . That is not only fair, but is a smart idea since its a deadly weapon that needs to be handled correctly. I think they should go one step further however, and make mandatory a course that deals when you can use your gun and when you cant under various situations.
Convicted Felons are the harder criminals of society and they are not worthy of owning a handgun for any purpose. There are such things as Pepper Gas , Knives, Clubs, Dog(s) , etc... which are available to them for self defense . People who have shown themselves to be very untrustworthy in society by adopting criminal status , dont deserve the same rights as law abiding citizens. It was their choice for getting criminal status and there should be repercussions even after they have served time for their willful crime.
Last edited by 007.5; 11-16-2009 at 05:03 PM..
Reason: add
One of the reasons Honest People need guns for defense--Is because bad guys already have them. And they don't buy them at the Store. Nor do they have permits.
A person should and doesnt have a legal right to carry a handgun concealed UNLESS they have taken the proper course and has a valid permit.
I hope this is just your opinion because it isn't fact. As I stated earlier, I didn't have to take a class to carry concealed, just a permit. I could have open carried without either. That is true in a lot of states.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5
I think they should go one step further however, and make mandatory a course that deals when you can use your gun and when you cant under various situations.
In the states that require you to take a class for your CC permit, this is covered.
I hope this is just your opinion because it isn't fact. As I stated earlier, I didn't have to take a class to carry concealed, just a permit. I could have open carried without either. That is true in a lot of states.
In the states that require you to take a class for your CC permit, this is covered.
What state do you live in that allowed no mandatory class be taken to carry concealed , as Id like to verify that .? To own and carry a concealed gun without any training is the height of irresponsibility both for the State and owner of the deadly weapon.
I took my class recently here in Florida, and , there was not one mention of WHEN it is justified to use deadly force nor any scenarios discussed. There should be otherwise the Owner of the Handgun stands to go to prison for a very long time if he kills a Perpetrator who wasnt life threatening. These types of flaws in the system need to be rectified immediately for each and every State.
Most Texans ar taught all about firearms as Children, just like we learn about cars, and crescent wrenches. It's all part of our everyday education. We put food on the table with firearms. and keep critters away from the Hen house with them. --It's hard for me to see how an adult would need "Lessons" on how to operate a pistol. And to need to take a class on when to shoot someone, is ridicules. Believe me, when the time comes, you will know. And if you have to stop and think about it for one second, it will often be you that gets shot. Some it seems, have reverted back to wimps, rather than Chimps.
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