Seriously, what the hell is wrong with a white-majority city? (unemployment rate, Congress)
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Just more anti-caucasian hate propoganda that is so pervasive in the U.S. today. It's OK to hate whites, and whites are expected to feel ashamed for being white. But god forbid whites want to be proud of their heritage. People talk 'diversity'... yet they seem to forget caucasians have plenty of diversity in their backgrounds. We say 'the color of your skin doesn't matter' and yet look at the hypocrisy-- non-whites seem to think they are superior. And how superficial is that, to judge 'diversity' by shades of skin...? 'European-Americans' have infinitely complex roots and culture. But somehow that doesn't count unless you're a shade darker. But frankly I'm sick to death of this stupid 'diversty' obsession. Geez,, we don't have enough in our country to satisfy people...? They won't be happy until they can take every last group of Caucasians that happen to congregate together and break them up.... because apparently a town that has too many whites, well that is now a crime against humanity, it seems!
One cannot have a system that for 300 years divided and created a hierarchy of humans, based upon race, discriminated and wrote laws to preserve the hierarchy, and then cease recording the racial aftermath or consequence of those policies upon the races impacted. People only now seek to be color-blind as a way covering up the aftermath or racial impact of years of racism. Thus, yes, I am concerned with comparing the races because if we don’t then effort and resources will not be directed to where it is needed most.
When you say that we should remember it, but not use it as an excuse….what exactly do you mean? History is a resource to understand the present. The goal is not necessarily to remember history, but rather to promote the future, to explain the present and not reinvent the wheel. History is also a form of memory and memory is a biological necessity for survival. We learn from the patterns of history what has threatened our survival and what has promoted our survival. History is the most powerful thing that we have. Mathematics, science and the like all evolved over time. It’s like steps on a ladder with each generation building off what the previous generation left. Remove that history and humanity plummets. To not respect history is to not respect knowledge.
In regards to the term excuse, let’s be honest. The term excuse is simply a euphemism for “lie”. When you say that someone is making an excuse, it’s just a diplomatic way of telling them that they are lying. What you are saying is this. “Yes….we should remember history but don’t lie and say that history is the reason that blacks are in the condition they are in today”. What I have gleaned from both your rebuttals is that you are essentially saying “you are using history and blaming whites to lie about the real reason that blacks are in the condition they are in”. The question is, since we or I am using history as an excuse….what’s the real reason?
I have one other point to make. Where should black people be at this juncture, given the history of this nation? Are we underperforming as a people, given that history? In other words, should we be in a better condition than we are today? If so, then why? Who has set the standard for recovering from 3 centuries of oppression and denigration while continuing to live in the land and among the descendants of your people’s oppressors? What I find implicit in the critic of many whites is the assumption that we should be doing better than we are, despite our experience. I am sure you think that if whites had that experience, that whites would have recovered and reached equality long, long ago. Black inferiority/ white supremacy is hence again implicit. Had society ever decided to that they valued its black citizens enough to create a MARSHALL PLAN to promote our recovery from oppression like it crreate the Marshall Plan for the recory of Europe after WWII (whose descrution was not this nations doing...unlike what it did to blacks), blacks would be closer to equality today.
Well no, you misinterepted what I said. I intended to say that history cannot be used as an excuse for black-on-white racism. I agree that what has happned to blacks in history is the reason for their current station.
What I got from your post was that you believe that black-on-white racism should be overlooked, or perhaps is even justified, based on history. You're just going to call it something other than "racism". Maybe "resentment". My point was that racism (no matter what word you want to put on it) cannot be justified or excused. There'd be more than a few white folks who could justify racism against blacks based on what they believe to be valid reasons.
Well no, you misinterepted what I said. I intended to say that history cannot be used as an excuse for black-on-white racism. I agree that what has happned to blacks in history is the reason for their current station.
What I got from your post was that you believe that black-on-white racism should be overlooked, or perhaps is even justified, based on history. You're just going to call it something other than "racism". Maybe "resentment". My point was that racism (no matter what word you want to put on it) cannot be justified or excused. There'd be more than a few white folks who could justify racism against blacks based on what they believe to be valid reasons.
What you are saying is that two wrongs don’t make a right, so to speak. However, to kidnap and hold someone against their will is a wrong, but that wrong is seen as justified when one commits a crime against society and is imprisoned against their will as a reaction to their criminal actions. Again, it’s an example of cause and effect. A person is in the wrong for using violence against another in an unprovoked attack The person attacked, however, human “Flight or fight” response will kick in and therefore he or she may use violence as a means of fending off and surviving the attacker. There are plenty examples of two wrongs being "understandable" and reactionary and not morally equivalent to the action that triggered the reaction.
Now, I certainly don’t think that whites should be enslaved, lynched and live under forced Jim Crow Apartheid. However, I do believe that the way blacks feel about whites is a conditioned response. You gave the example of a white girl being raped by a black guy and whether that is justification for not liking black people. It’s not. The reason being is that black people did not do anything to her….a black person did. It was a one to one incident and it would be racist on her part to hold the group responsible for the actions of one member. That’s the fallacy of composition which is the argument that what is true of a part of the whole is thus true for the whole. The other half of that fallacy is to assume that what is true for the whole is true of all its parts.
That is quite different from the black experience in America. This is a nation, of the people, by the people, and for the people, which created laws that enslaved black people and relegated them to third class citizens to be inferior to whites. Suffrage was in the hands of white people (white males) and thus the acts of racism were many to many…..group to group. It was whites and their laws written to oppress and denigrate black people. Thus, black people, from this history, have been conditioned to resent white people (the group), because white people were responsible for black oppression. Now, again, I am not employing the fallacy of composition and arguing that what was true for the whole was true for all its parts, meaning that a good percentage of white people were not racist and actually helped black people. However, for 300 years, white society oppressed blacks, despite the benevolence and sacrifice of many whites. Therefore individual acts of violence or negativity by blacks against whites should never make someone not like blacks in general, but societal and legal acts of a nation against a whole people will predictably create resentment towards the group that oppressed them and justifiably so. However, what one does with that resentment is another story altogether.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 04-15-2010 at 08:21 PM..
Just more anti-caucasian hate propoganda that is so pervasive in the U.S. today. It's OK to hate whites, and whites are expected to feel ashamed for being white. But god forbid whites want to be proud of their heritage. People talk 'diversity'... yet they seem to forget caucasians have plenty of diversity in their backgrounds. We say 'the color of your skin doesn't matter' and yet look at the hypocrisy-- non-whites seem to think they are superior. And how superficial is that, to judge 'diversity' by shades of skin...? 'European-Americans' have infinitely complex roots and culture. But somehow that doesn't count unless you're a shade darker. But frankly I'm sick to death of this stupid 'diversty' obsession. Geez,, we don't have enough in our country to satisfy people...? They won't be happy until they can take every last group of Caucasians that happen to congregate together and break them up.... because apparently a town that has too many whites, well that is now a crime against humanity, it seems!
White people will be a minority in the United States in a few decades. Get over it, in my view its simply karma.
What you are saying is that two wrongs don’t make a right, so to speak. However, to kidnap and hold someone against their will is a wrong, but that wrong is seen as justified when one commits a crime against society and is imprisoned against their will as a reaction to their criminal actions. Again, it’s an example of cause and effect. A person is in the wrong for using violence against another in an unprovoked attack The person attacked, however, human “Flight or fight” response will kick in and therefore he or she may use violence as a means of fending off and surviving the attacker. There are plenty examples of two wrongs being "understandable" and reactionary and not morally equivalent to the action that triggered the reaction.
Now, I certainly don’t think that whites should be enslaved, lynched and live under forced Jim Crow Apartheid. However, I do believe that the way blacks feel about whites is a conditioned response. You gave the example of a white girl being raped by a black guy and whether that is justification for not liking black people. It’s not. The reason being is that black people did not do anything to her….a black person did. It was a one to one incident and it would be racist on her part to hold the group responsible for the actions of one member. That’s the fallacy of composition which is the argument that what is true of a part of the whole is thus true for the whole. The other half of that fallacy is to assume that what is true for the whole is true of all its parts.
That is quite different from the black experience in America. This is a nation, of the people, by the people, and for the people, which created laws that enslaved black people and relegated them to third class citizens to be inferior to whites. Suffrage was in the hands of white people (white males) and thus the acts of racism were many to many…..group to group. It was whites and their laws written to oppress and denigrate black people. Thus, black people, from this history, have been conditioned to resent white people (the group), because white people were responsible for black oppression. Now, again, I am not employing the fallacy of composition and arguing that what was true for the whole was true for all its parts, meaning that a good percentage of white people were not racist and actually helped black people. However, for 300 years, white society oppressed blacks, despite the benevolence and sacrifice of many whites. Therefore individual acts of violence or negativity by blacks against whites should never make someone not like blacks in general, but societal and legal acts of a nation against a whole people will predictably create resentment towards the group that oppressed them and justifiably so. However, what one does with that resentment is another story altogether.
So, I did understand that right, you think that it is okay for blacks to be racist against whites based on history. Great. Of course you are not the only one who I've met who has this viewpoint. A few years ago my uncle unleashed the same mentality at a family get-together at a city park. He was in WWII and fought on Iwo Jima against the Japanese. To this day he resents the Japanese. Of course the people in the park were not the same Japanese people who he faced in battle. In fact, the people in the park very possibly were not even of Japanese decent. They were just Asian. So it's racist on that score, but even if they were actual Japanese people occupying those two or three nearby picnic tables, it would be totally misplaced resentment. Okay, yeah, I can understand why he might feel as he does. But is it okay? No, of course not. Sometimes rational thought has to overcome emotion, even if the emotion is based on history, or more than one person.
Like I said, there's more than a few white folks who will swear that their reasons for racism are perfectly acceptable. Hey, I got it, you and those white folks could argue back and forth over whose racism is more legitimate. Of course in the end all of you would be wrong.
Last edited by GalileoSmith; 04-15-2010 at 09:57 PM..
[quote=Indentured Servant;13760416]This is a nation, of the people, by the people, and for the people, which created laws that enslaved black people and relegated them to third class citizens to be inferior to whites.
No, this is not the nation which enslaved blacks. It was this nation's ancestors who did it. This nation created a major progress for blacks in recent decades by creating laws, which make blacks equal.
And these blacks have never been enslaved, it was their ancestors who were. Therefore any hate comming from these blacks is unjustified. I would understand the blame from the blacks who were actually mistreated, but I refuse to take the blame/hate from nowdays blacks, because it was not them, and it was not me!
Whites living in recent decades should actually be thanked by the blacks (living in recent decades) for finishing the time when blacks were mistreated, and for creating full equality.
Karma for what?? It's absurd that people need to be reminded.. that bad (and good) things have been done by all people of all races and all cultures, since the dawn of time. INCLUDING war, genocide, baby-murder, slavery, raping and pillaging, and so on.
And using your overly simplistic logic: The Native Americans are now reduced to a minority (to use just one example).... Hmmm... serves them right! So their being decimated to just a fraction of their former glory is karma for what, exactly.....??
color coding is used alot to attempt to explain urban area behaviors. its is false from beginning to end. building dont do anything but stare at each other.
people make or break a city. stop mugging people and saying others made you do it.
To start, I want to throw it out there that I don't buy into reverse racism or white racism. If systemic racism is absent from the big picture, it's pretty meaningless. Whites have not had to contend with systemic racism.period. This may change, but at this juncture it's not the case despite cries of affirmative action, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant
When you say that we should remember it, but not use it as an excuse….what exactly do you mean? History is a resource to understand the present. The goal is not necessarily to remember history, but rather to promote the future, to explain the present and not reinvent the wheel. History is also a form of memory and memory is a biological necessity for survival. We learn from the patterns of history what has threatened our survival and what has promoted our survival. History is the most powerful thing that we have. Mathematics, science and the like all evolved over time. It’s like steps on a ladder with each generation building off what the previous generation left. Remove that history and humanity plummets. To not respect history is to not respect knowledge.
When I hear "don't use it as an excuse" something else comes to mind. That's not to say you're incorrect regarding the intent of others. I have no idea really, but to me it translates as history, and even the consequences of this history, are not bargaining tools. You (general you) will not always be able to trade it for something of value.
Its another white racist tactic of avoiding an important discussions by pointing to obscurities because the truth makes them uncomfortable.
All of my posts are in rebuttle to NYchi, did you even bother to read his racist remarks, oh thats right, blacks can't be racist, i forgot.
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