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Someone on the 'Don't go to Hilo if you are white' thread compiled your posts.
I thought it was interesting that you hate Mexicans coming into California...which implies to me, that if you were Hawaiian, you would absolutely hate whites coming to Hawaii.
You don't see any irony in that?
I for one see no irony, but rather inaccuracy.
A Mexican (or any foriegn national) coming into California is someone coming from one country to another.
A White (or anyone other American) coming to Hawaii is merely someone moving from one state in the Union to another.
Is there racism in Hawaii? Yes.
Are there racists in Hawaii? Yes.
Are there racially motivated incidents in Hawaii? Yes.
I believe the above could be said of any state in the US, and probably any location in the world.
Is any of the above, generally, a problem for most people who visit here, or even most people who move here?
You would have to decide how big a "problem" it would have to be before you decided yes or no to that question. But if it really were a big problem, then tourism couldn't thrive as one of the main sources of revenue for the state. People may come but not return. And yet people return to Hawaii, some every year, to a second home or as a regular vacation. Some visitors may notice that they aren't the majority in some locatons, and that could be a new thing for them. I think often people who are newly the minority get a little fearful, or uncomfortable, and then maybe a bit sensitive.
I would have to say that the most common reasons for why people leave Hawaii involve:
1. Cost of living here
2. Island fever, getting bored with lack of variety in some arena
3. Lack of opportunity for education, work, or relationships
I truly think people attribute race as the cause for some conflicts that are really spawned from other factors. And sometimes the word haole is used as a descriptor, and the listener may not be used to having a description of race added to a Caucasian. That is, it used to be that newspapers would describe someone as, "45-year old male, driving a red car" if they were Caucasian, but would add race "45-year old black male, driving a red car" if they were not. This was in part because Caucasians were the majority, so the assumed look. Maybe in Hawaii the folks who say haole are using the description as "different from us", versus "bad".
Really it all depends on the circumstances. Words can create an emotional charge, not always intended as negative but can be taken that way. Then again, you can sometimes decide not to take it that way.
What you all need to understand is the hatred for the white race steems from the plantations and the stealing of the land i am a white man who has been raised in Hawaii i have "local" friends and at times i still feel like an outsider the natives wouldnt work in the fields so the white man brought in and exploited other races and they all banded together to hate the white man i mean how would you feel
I'm Caucasian and have never had anything but friendly experiences as a visitor to Hawaii (more vacations that I can count). My favorite island is Oahu and I've been all over it and more often that not I'm asked "Kamaaina discount?" where ever I go. I think it has to do more with attitude and trying not to appear a tourist. That said, I've never lived and worked there, so it could be a totally different experience. I do know three women who lived there from different backgrounds:
1. One was a half Navajo/half white girl I worked with while I was in college. She was absolutely gorgeous and apparently pulled from the best of her Caucasian dad and Native American mom. She and her boyfriend moved to Kauai and she enrolled in the community college in Lihue. Due to her obvious mixed race appearance she said she would blend in very easily and everything would be fine until it was discovered she was from California. She said then the cold-shouldering and unfriendliness would start. Her white boyfriend got it immediately and they both were so disappointed they returned to California after just six months.
2. I work with a Filipina girl who immigrated to the US when she was nine years old. They first went to Honolulu and lived there five years. She said it was a heavily Samoan/Hawaiian neighborhood and she was picked on incessantly due to her small size and being from the Phillipines. She said she was called "FOB" (Fresh off the boat) the entire time she lived there and was beaten up often. When her family moved to the Bay Area just as she was entering high school she said it was like heaven - no one picked on her.
3. I also work with a woman of Samoan descent who was born and raised on Oahu. Kindest, sweetest person in our office. I asked her once what she though it would be like for a mainlander/Caucasian to live in Hawaii and she said that you might run into trouble with certain people in certain areas, but it wasn't likely. She basically said since everyone is a minority there you have to get along and accept different people/races.
All I can say is that every time I get off the plane at SFO after a vacation the first thing that strikes me (other than the fog!) is the rush-rush and cold attitude of the people. After two or three weeks in Hawaii I miss the nice, friendly, laid back attitude there and until I experience otherwise I won't judge the place or the people.
A Mexican (or any foriegn national) coming into California is someone coming from one country to another.
A White (or anyone other American) coming to Hawaii is merely someone moving from one state in the Union to another.
You intent was noble. Your analogy irrelevant.
How could you not see obvious irony in that?
Check your pulse! Are you still breathing?
Check your heartbeat! Is your heart still beating?
If one travels from Mexico to the United States, based solely upon history, he should be able to feel some sense of entitlement, due to the fact that his ancestors inhabited California, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, and Nevada, long before any Caucasion ever did.
Texas and California were aggressively taken by James Polk and others.
They believed that it was their "Manifest Destiny" when they drove thousands after thousands of Mexicans from their homes, stating all the while that they were entitled to do so, because they were white.
Now, when whites see Mexicans coming over the border in droves, they feel threatened. That alone is ironic!
However, when you place the event within the context of a white person feeling as though he's being racially discriminated against in Hawaii because the native people of Hawaii resent his presence due to his skin color, HOW COULD THAT NOT BE IRONIC?
Explanation:
The Continental United States
Whites within the United States feel as though this is their country. If you are anything but white, it's because of them and their high level of civility that allows you to enjoy what freedoms your have while living here.
Therefore, to cross the border as a Mexican, you are intruding unless your papers are in order. If too many Mexicans are crossing the border, it doesn't matter about papers, you are going to be seen as an undersirable. Most whites will then treat you as an undesirable. Therefore, expect the rolls of the KKK to increase and the American Nazi Party to accomodate more new converts (and skinheads too). Also, expect there to be immense concern about 'border crossings' and 'National Security'.
Hawaii
Native Hawaiians felt just fine before they encountered whites. However, when they did encounter them, they were warm and accepting. Eventually, they got the feeling that they were being exploited and condescended upon. They began to feel as though the whites felt superior to them and that they and their country were just there for white peoples' amusement. This feeling was magnified, once Hawaii started to cater to the U.S. military. It financially enriched Hawaiian politicians, governmental officials, and many businessmen, but the average Islander felt as though there land had been taken over. They felt threatened. However, they knew that the US was too big and that the Island would stand to gain financially. Therefore, they invented the insulting word "Hoalie" out of quiet desperation. They really wanted to revolt! However, that was just out of the question militarily speaking, because the Hawaiian military was just its police force, which ultimately worked under the auspices of the United States.
So yes! Many Hawaiians feel as though their Island was taken. Many resent it, but that's history now. Most have moved on from that. Some thought it was a good idea to accept the whites and they still do! Most young Hawaiian don't even care about it! They just want to have fun, dance, go to the beach, be romantic, have girlfriends and boyfriends, and that's it! They don't even want to think about such things as race, fighting, or hurting anyone. Most Hawaiians are very non-aggressive.
So yes! For a white person (Pure American) to object seeing a Mexican cross the U.S. border and NOT understand how a Hawaiian may feel seeing a white person cross his borders is just a tad bit IRONIC!
Last edited by Farrowlane; 11-30-2010 at 10:12 PM..
Check your pulse! Are you still breathing?
Check your heartbeat! Is your heart still beating?
If one travels from Mexico to the United States, based solely upon history, he should be able to feel some sense of entitlement, due to the fact that his ancestors inhabited California, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, and Nevada, long before any Caucasion ever did.
Texas and California were aggressively taken by James Polk and others.
They believed that it was their "Manifest Destiny" when they drove thousands after thousands of Mexicans from their homes, stating all the while that they were entitled to do so, because they were white.
Now, when whites see Mexicans coming over the border in droves, they feel threatened. That alone is ironic!
However, when you place the event within the context of a white person feeling as though he's being racially discriminated against in Hawaii because the native people of Hawaii resent his presence due to his skin color, HOW COULD THAT NOT BE IRONIC?
Explanation:
The Continental United States
Whites within the United States feel as though this is their country. If you are anything but white, it's because of them and their high level of civility that allows you to enjoy what freedoms your have while living here.
Therefore, to cross the border as a Mexican, you are intruding unless your papers are in order. If too many Mexicans are crossing the border, it doesn't matter about papers, you are going to be seen as an undersirable. Most whites will then treat you as an undesirable. Therefore, expect the rolls of the KKK to increase and the American Nazi Party to accomodate more new converts (and skinheads too). Also, expect there to be immense concern about 'border crossings' and 'National Security'.
Hawaii
Native Hawaiians felt just fine before they encountered whites. However, when they did encounter them, they were warm and accepting. Eventually, they got the feeling that they were being exploited and condescended upon. They began to feel as though the whites felt superior to them and that they and their country were just there for white peoples' amusement. This feeling was magnified, once Hawaii started to cater to the U.S. military. It financially enriched Hawaiian politicians, governmental officials, and many businessmen, but the average Islander felt as though there land had been taken over. They felt threatened. However, they knew that the US was too big and that the Island would stand to gain financially. Therefore, they invented the insulting word "Hoalie" out of quiet desperation. They really wanted to revolt! However, that was just out of the question militarily speaking, because the Hawaiian military was just its police force, which ultimately worked under the auspices of the United States.
So yes! Many Hawaiians feel as though their Island was taken. Many resent it, but that's history now. Most have moved on from that. Some thought it was a good idea to accept the whites and they still do! Most young Hawaiian don't even care about it! They just want to have fun, dance, go to the beach, be romantic, have girlfriends and boyfriends, and that's it! They don't even want to think about such things as race, fighting, or hurting anyone. Most Hawaiians are very non-aggressive.
So yes! For a white person (Pure American) to object seeing a Mexican cross the U.S. border and NOT understand how a Hawaiian may feel seeing a white person cross his borders is just a tad bit IRONIC!
Yea I am sure you and everybody else here were in Hawaii in the 1890s.
Using your justification of the past is always alive, I can think of hundreds of peoples who can now lay claims. The cry of victimhood, in perpetuity.
Yea I am sure you and everybody else here were in Hawaii in the 1890s.
Using your justification of the past is always alive, I can think of hundreds of peoples who can now lay claims. The cry of victimhood, in perpetuity.
Pulse is fine. Your maturity is suspect.
Most people of color can lay that claim, all over the world. However, it's up to every man and his nation to be ultimately responsible for themselves.
All is fair in love and war and to the victor goes the spoils. That's just the way that it is! That's just nature...
The point here, is the ability to see clear and obvious irony in the fact that a white person acusing a native Hawaiian of racism, while at the same time demonstrating an obvious racist predisposition himself, concerning Mexicans.
Most people of color can lay that claim, all over the world. However, it's up to every man and his nation to be ultimately responsible for themselves.
All is fair in love and war and to the victor goes the spoils. That's just the way that it is! That's just nature...
The point here, is the ability to see clear and obvious irony in the fact that a white person acusing a native Hawaiian of racism, while at the same time demonstrating an obvious racist predisposition himself, concerning Mexicans.
Have A Nice Day!
No, comparing someone traversing international borders to someone traversing state borders was the point. I would think that obvious.
Now, if this fella objects to Hawaiians moving from Hawaii to one of the other 49 States or associated American territories, then we might have a match.
I would think its a bit of a stretch to compare racism by some groups or individuals triggered by internal migration within a country to concern about massive illegal foreign immigration to a country (regardless of what may have happened in a region of the recipient country 150 years ago). There's no excuse for overt racism regardless. Its indefensible. An illegal Mexican immigrant being kicked to death in Pennsylvania is just as abhorrent as a Caucasian US serviceman and his wife being horribly beaten in Honolulu. Both are hate crimes and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law (and the PA case was).
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