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I should also mention that while today the population of Israel is 7.5 million, with additional 4 million in Palestinian territories, only about 1/10 as many people lived there in the early 20th century.
I picked Nazi Germany. Other civilizations may have been evil, or had evil intent, but Nazi Germany is the only one that was evil, had access to modern technology and used it to kill, destroy and conquer on a biblical scale. No conflict in human history even comes close to the savagery of WW2, and Nazi Germany is responsible for the European theater of that war. The nazis planned and carried out genocide, they brutalized thier neighbors, destroyed cities and killed millions. The US, Britain, Canada, Austraila and the Soviet Union sacrificed even more millions of thier men to defeat this evil. No other group comes even close to the level of destruction the Nazis caused. If I was to pick a second place it would be Imperial Japan for the same reasons, just on a smaller scale. Japanese caused death and destruction just did not amount to the same bloody numbers as the Nazis, although they were extremly dangerous and evil as well. Hopefully there is never another era as brutal as the 1930s and 1940s ever. From the time city states rose out of mesopotamia 6000 years ago to the 21rst century, no time period is as brutal and bloody as those between 1939 and 1945.
None of the above. The British and French empires were far more abusive and "influential" in the course of human history than any other prior.
Of course, that's if you discount current empires - the US empire is the most abusive in all of human history. No other nation or people have dominated the world in terms of material wealth, instigated and corrupted foreign sovereign politics, upheld brutal despots, or held hostage other nations via economic power than the USA.
The United States is not an empire, unless you claim that the ownership of Puerto Rico, Guam, and American Somoa makes it so. These possessions are so trivial as make the designation of empire ludicrous.
The United States is not an empire, unless you claim that the ownership of Puerto Rico, Guam, and American Somoa makes it so. These possessions are so trivial as make the designation of empire ludicrous.
The US has incoprorated their empire into States, but the territory was largely won by conquest. We credit Europeans for the conquest of today's US which was East of the Appalachians, but it was the Americans who marched into the Mississippi and Ohio River valleys and defeated and evicted those who were living there.
The American won the SW territories via conquest when they defeated the Mexicans. The Great Plains were won when the horse culture tribes were starved into accepting reservations.
The US chose to make these conquests into States rather than colonies, but they are all part of emperial conquests.
The US began with 13 States East of the Appalachians. All else has been empire building.
i don't mean to be rude but this poll is ridiculous. it's because it's incomplete and unrealistic.
there were many equally savage civilizations throughout history, even exceeding japan's brutality not only in sheer numbers but atrocities. it's strange and almost silly to even pick japan if one is considering all of human history.
the roman civilization was built by cruel slavery (they enslaved conquered peoples but this aspect is usually ignored and focus is on the greatness of rome-just the positive aspect while ignoring the nasty and savage aspect that fueled it) as were many and they also had the coliseum. that is also savagery.
the islamic countries had many savage practices, saying that it's evident today to some extent is an understatement. these places are not where most would feel even remotely safe to live.
western civilization was sadistic with their torture devices and religious perversions of justice. at certain times, it was the worst and dreadful place for a person to be.
there were just so many savage civilizations, history has been nasty and bloody.
it seems the focus has been on those recently that are in our minds due to media coverage or harping on them. it also seems to focus on military related and the cherry-picking of what is savage in an artificial and even juvenile understanding of what savagery consists of and how much of it there was.
"savagery" is all inclusive and a broad context. that is, if you understand what it means.
The US has incoprorated their empire into States, but the territory was largely won by conquest. We credit Europeans for the conquest of today's US which was East of the Appalachians, but it was the Americans who marched into the Mississippi and Ohio River valleys and defeated and evicted those who were living there.
The American won the SW territories via conquest when they defeated the Mexicans. The Great Plains were won when the horse culture tribes were starved into accepting reservations.
The US chose to make these conquests into States rather than colonies, but they are all part of emperial conquests.
The US began with 13 States East of the Appalachians. All else has been empire building.
This is an undeniable truth that we cannot change. The United states was built on conquest, every inch of land was occupied by others before it became part of the US. How many Indian wars did we fight? THe war of 1812 is in part about Indian resistance to our expansion. We fought the British to a draw in this war, but the Indians never recovered from it. The war with Mexico was needed to push manifest destiny forward. Troops were sent into disputed territory in order to provoke an incident. We got one, and used it fully to our advatage. Thank president Polk for NM, AZ, CA, CO, UT, and NV. The Mexicans never stood a chance. Look at how we got Hawaii, a true land grab. Alaska was purchased, the only exception. Dont take my post wrong, I am not ashamed of American history and I love this nation. I believe we have done more with the land we conquered than those we took it from would have. The people of this nation live better than they would have if those we conqured were still in charge. I believe even though many people were wronged then, good has come of it through the years. Really if you look at it, most of the world was settled by conquest of a weak people by those who are stronger and more advanced. It is the way of history.
the islamic countries had many savage practices, saying that it's evident today to some extent is an understatement. these places are not where most would feel even remotely safe to live.
As an American who lived in a Muslim country for two years and another one for several months, and has visited nearly all of them, I see it very differently. My wife and I lived in Jordan, working in ordinary jobs at local wages, with no expat perks, and neither of us ever had a single untoward incident. None of my acquaintances felt at all threatened by the socio-political conditions, and were as free to live their lives according to their custom as we are in America. As travelers, there is no country in the world in which we were treated as kindly and generously and hospitably as in Syria and Iran.
Aside from that, I agree with much of what you say in general. Widespread and institutionalized savagery can raise its ugly head in any place, given contributing circumstances, and no civilization on earth is immune to it. And even amid peace and harmony, individual anecdotes of savagery can arise out of the blue.
By the way, the mere fact of maintaining social order according to custom does not constitute savagery, even if enforced by a few arrests. In no way can you call modern Afghans or Iranians "savages" on that basis alone.
Last edited by jtur88; 10-19-2010 at 12:03 PM..
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