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They get no substantial welfare and never have. Simply not a motivator. Can't practically cut off jobs. The infrastructure is to well established.
Odds are there will be an amnesty eventually. Maybe 20 years but we will tire of the silliness eventually. Got to get on with life. And with no amnesty the thing simply continues and likely gets worse.
Actually that used to be much more prevalent than it is now. Basically we tightened the border enough that guys brought their family instead of commutting back and forth...and that is one of the big problems. They now have roots and American born children. Classical unplanned consequences of tightening the border.
Talk about folk tales...The intent was to get the hell out of that lousey environ and stay out. Sure there were guys who came to work for a while, build up some resources, and then go home to use them. But we fixed all those guys when we tightened the screws on the border.
We could have provided limited stay permits...but we did not. We built the system to force immigration and they did.
Now we complain.
They get plenty of welfare through their U.S. born children. They are bankrupting our schools, jails and hospitals. As for jobs, most of them would be filled by Americans with the removal of illegal aliens from them.
With another amnesty the problem would just accelerate down the road and we would be faced with yet another huge illegal alien population waiting for yet another amensty. Time to say, no more. Just like we were promised in 1986 with the last amensty.
We have had to tighten our borders, ports and airspace because of accelerated terrorist threats. Sorry, that made it inconvenient for illegal aliens to just jump back and forth across our borders at will but our national security is at risk.
We take in 1.5 million legal immigrants already. We should allow more in on temporary permits even though we don't have jobs and resources for them? I think not.
Yes, "we" complain because our government hasn't given us a vote or voice in these matters. It wasn't "our" idea to not secure our borders and to keep incentives in place for illegals to continue to come here by the millions. "We" aren't going to pay for the sins of our government anymore. "We" will put a stop to this by throwing the bums out of office and our voices will he heard!
They get no substantial welfare and never have. Simply not a motivator. Can't practically cut off jobs. The infrastructure is to well established.
Odds are there will be an amnesty eventually. Maybe 20 years but we will tire of the silliness eventually. Got to get on with life. And with no amnesty the thing simply continues and likely gets worse.
Actually that used to be much more prevalent than it is now. Basically we tightened the border enough that guys brought their family instead of commutting back and forth...and that is one of the big problems. They now have roots and American born children. Classical unplanned consequences of tightening the border.
Talk about folk tales...The intent was to get the hell out of that lousey environ and stay out. Sure there were guys who came to work for a while, build up some resources, and then go home to use them. But we fixed all those guys when we tightened the screws on the border.
We could have provided limited stay permits...but we did not. We built the system to force immigration and they did.
Now we complain.
In fact they get a lot of welfare. Free health care whether it's Emergency Medicaid for their maternity stay - which is given to illegals, or Medicaid for their US born children, followed by lots of food stamps, WIC coupons, free meals at schools, free babysitting at Head Start and much more.
In fact, it's difficult for American citizens who take low-paying jobs to support a family in the USA with our very high cost of living. Imagine being a drop out from a Mexican third grade with absolutely no ability to learn English and working a very low wage job as an illegal? How do you think they make ends meet?
Yes, some of those who didn't pay the cartel $5000 each to smuggle in their kids but left them with some relative and send money home can actually support their children, but those who bring them here and visit the maternity units regularly are not supporting their children. They require government handouts. Welfare handouts and the generous government programs are the big motivation to come here.
Or - should we see what happens, how La Raza groups would scream if we told them no more welfare, no more government handouts to the families of anchor babies?
And we do provide limited stay visas. No caps at all on H2A visas.
The employers could satisfy all their needs for temporary foreign workers - however they don't choose to bother with H2A visas because 1. why bother when they can bring in semi-trailers filled with dehydrated illegals and nothing happens, 2. they would have to pay legal wages and benefits, 3. they would have to go through some motions showing they attempted to hire citizens first.
The visas obviously exist, there are ways to obey the laws and still have foreign labor. They just can't exploit that foreign labor if they follow the laws.
And Mexico is not a hell-hole. It simply doesn't have the overly generous government programs. Mexico's middle class is growing - however to become middle class there you have to stay in school, obtain job skills, delay the start of a family until you've done that - and marry of course. Same things it generally takes to be middle class in the USA.
In Mexico if you start having children at age 15 with no education, no job skills, you face a life of work - work as a servant or maybe maquila employee. You don't get to lay around waiting for the food stamp card to fill up, you don't get to dump your kids off at a Head Start so you can go out shopping. In the USA, cheap servants aren't paid well enough to have many kids.
In fact they get a lot of welfare. Free health care whether it's Emergency Medicaid for their maternity stay - which is given to illegals, or Medicaid for their US born children, followed by lots of food stamps, WIC coupons, free meals at schools, free babysitting at Head Start and much more.
In fact, it's difficult for American citizens who take low-paying jobs to support a family in the USA with our very high cost of living. Imagine being a drop out from a Mexican third grade with absolutely no ability to learn English and working a very low wage job as an illegal? How do you think they make ends meet?
Yes, some of those who didn't pay the cartel $5000 each to smuggle in their kids but left them with some relative and send money home can actually support their children, but those who bring them here and visit the maternity units regularly are not supporting their children. They require government handouts. Welfare handouts and the generous government programs are the big motivation to come here.
Or - should we see what happens, how La Raza groups would scream if we told them no more welfare, no more government handouts to the families of anchor babies?
Want to cite a source for your views? Children of illegals do get help but at no worse than the normal population ratios. And they are Americans and entitiled to the aid.
From the best of the anti sources...
CIS: Our findings show that many of the preconceived notions about the fiscal impact of illegal households turn out to be inaccurate. In terms of welfare use, receipt of cash assistance programs tends to be very low, while Medicaid use, though significant, is still less than for other households. Only use of food assistance programs is significantly higher than that of the rest of the population. Also, contrary to the perceptions that illegal aliens don’t pay payroll taxes, we estimate that more than half of illegals work “on the books.â€
Want to cite a source for your views? Children of illegals do get help but at no worse than the normal population ratios. And they are Americans and entitiled to the aid.
From the best of the anti sources...
CIS: Our findings show that many of the preconceived notions about the fiscal impact of illegal households turn out to be inaccurate. In terms of welfare use, receipt of cash assistance programs tends to be very low, while Medicaid use, though significant, is still less than for other households. Only use of food assistance programs is significantly higher than that of the rest of the population. Also, contrary to the perceptions that illegal aliens don’t pay payroll taxes, we estimate that more than half of illegals work “on the books.â€
Birthright citizenship need to go away for anchors.
Want to cite a source for your views? Children of illegals do get help but at no worse than the normal population ratios. And they are Americans and entitiled to the aid.
From the best of the anti sources...
CIS: Our findings show that many of the preconceived notions about the fiscal impact of illegal households turn out to be inaccurate. In terms of welfare use, receipt of cash assistance programs tends to be very low, while Medicaid use, though significant, is still less than for other households. Only use of food assistance programs is significantly higher than that of the rest of the population. Also, contrary to the perceptions that illegal aliens don’t pay payroll taxes, we estimate that more than half of illegals work “on the books.”
Many if not most sources say that these illegals are costing us billions in taxes above and beyond any taxes they pay on the books. Most are at the poverty level with many dependants. There is no logical reason to assume that they pay in enough taxes to cover their social costs. The point is that if they weren't here illegally in the first place they wouldn't be having anchor babies that we have to pay for in numerous ways. It is the parent's that we are angered at for violating our immigration laws and then benefiting from it.
Many if not most sources say that these illegals are costing us billions in taxes above and beyond any taxes they pay on the books. Most are at the poverty level with many dependants. There is no logical reason to assume that they pay in enough taxes to cover their social costs. The point is that if they weren't here illegally in the first place they wouldn't be having anchor babies that we have to pay for in numerous ways. It is the parent's that we are angered at for violating our immigration laws and then benefiting from it.
Simply not true. There are a very few sources. Just a lot of people quoting them.
The illegals are often well above the poverty level and average about 2.6 children per mother. That is somewhat higher than the US and Mexican rates but not by a huge amount.
If you dig through all of the sources avaiable you will find that they cost surprisingly little. That is one of the reasons that the cost of the legal children is always included by those opposed. They can't find enough cost without the legal children to complain about. There are dislocations...the payments may not go to the same government that gets the expense...but that is a problem the US can fix if it choses to.
In my personal opinion the cost of illegals should be paid by the feds. They should reimburse the states and cities for the costs encountered in dealing with the illegals. Collect all those costs at the authority who should deal with the problem.
The feds will counter that such an approach is a license to steal given to the states... and they are likely right. But that would seem fair and should help motivate the feds to fix the problem.
Practically though the feds won't do it. We should be more careful about who we send to Washington.
Again I am not optimistic. The antis will block amnesty and nobody will pay the cost to actually crack down which likely will not work anyway.
Virtually no country can solve the problem is it allowed to get this big. No real exceptions.
You aware that the high tech wall was abandoned on Friday? Everyone finally admitted it did not work.
The cost numbers are all pretty much the same. Illegals cost close enough to zero that no one really knows whether it costs or not. "Bankrupting CA" is simply propaganda. CA would be just as bankrupt if all the illegals went away.
In fact one of the big arguments raised against amnesty is that it will cost too much as it will eventually enable the immigrants to get the welfare and aid they are presently denied for being illegal.
California wasn't bankrupt until it was flooded by Mexico's indigent underclass.
You know what?
Even if illegal migration costs only a few dollars that's ultimately not the point. The point is that Americans should not be fiscally responsible in any way for an illegal migrant who has broken our laws.
You have admitted in this thread that a) illegal migration isn't free b) many illegal migrants get handouts via their anchor babies c) many illegal migrants don't work on the book or legally drive.
You still haven't explained why we shouldn't impose a reasonable crackdown on illegal migrants. Your only answer is a) amnesty and b) deportation costs are high.
Amnesty didn't work in the past. Amnesty frankly made the problem ten times worse. Amnesty today would only continue to reward low skilled low breakers. Worse, it would entitled to them to enormous benefits in the form of EITC and other federally sponsored welfare programs as most illegal migrants are not well educated, earn comparatively little and do not speak English.
So your proposed solution is in essence to declare the problem unsolvable, reward law breakers and make every single low skilled migrant immediately eligible for American tax payer financed welfare programs.
How is that a solution? Why should Americans see our pockets picked to support millions of people from a single ethnic group who break our immigration laws, refuse to speak our language and ultimately want us to finance their dreams of an American middle class life even though they possess none of the qualifications that would make this lifestyle possible without enormous handouts?
How is that a fair demand of the American public?
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