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Old 07-04-2011, 07:23 PM
 
455 posts, read 536,435 times
Reputation: 208

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Well, I visit east vale/Corona area quite often, they just built a bunch of new homes.Everyone that comes around to cut lawns,paint,electrical,concrete is mexican. Since I doubt we will/could deport these people, they will need another amnesty situation followed by serious tax reform, obviously no easy answers, but not really that difficult either.
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:29 AM
 
1,712 posts, read 3,571,560 times
Reputation: 1831
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC6ZLV View Post
I don't buy the excuse Americans won't do these jobs. While it is true most Americans aren't too keen on doing farm labor, the employment of illegal aliens goes beyond the agricultural sector and into the restaurant business, hotels, warehousing, and everything else where employers have replaced American workers with illegal aliens because they pay them less, find it easier to take advantage of illegal aliens when they want to break labor laws, like paying minimum wage, overtime and occupational safety.

The agricultural sector needs to do more mechanization. The reason they aren't doing it is because it is cheaper to hire illegal aliens, and illegal aliens don't require periodic maintenance when they break down in the middle of a job. Employers just don't hire them and the taxpayers pay the medical costs. Meanwhile, another illegal alien dies from heatstroke in the fields of Kern County.

But back to who will do what jobs, I couldn't find any statistics on it, but the ag sector throughout the country has been screaming about a "labor shortage" for the last decade. Only a small percentage of illegal aliens who are looking for work head to the fields. It is much easier to find a job in an air-conditioned restaurant or hotel, and that is where most of them are getting jobs. Not the ag sector. And I will not believe for a minute that employers can't find Americans to vacuum the carpet at Motel 6 or flip burgers at McDonald's.
I disagree with your statement. While it is true that illegals do other jobs such as housekeeping, dishwashing and burger flipping, I still don't think you're going to find many American citizens willing to do this type of back breaking work at minimum wage.

This is called structural unemployment, where many people involved in manufacturing have seen their jobs outsourced to China. They're more accustomed to earning a middle-class income and aren't willing to do the work that illegals do at minimum wage. So, you should blame our policy makers on how we deal with China, not the illegals here.
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Old 07-05-2011, 12:28 PM
 
2,113 posts, read 2,242,920 times
Reputation: 1758
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior101 View Post
I disagree with your statement. While it is true that illegals do other jobs such as housekeeping, dishwashing and burger flipping, I still don't think you're going to find many American citizens willing to do this type of back breaking work at minimum wage.

This is called structural unemployment, where many people involved in manufacturing have seen their jobs outsourced to China. They're more accustomed to earning a middle-class income and aren't willing to do the work that illegals do at minimum wage. So, you should blame our policy makers on how we deal with China, not the illegals here.
False.

Thousands Line Up for McDonald's Jobs in Atlanta - New America Media

You have thousands of people lining up to apply for McDonald's. Any other anti-America propaganda you care to share?
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Old 07-05-2011, 01:02 PM
 
1,712 posts, read 3,571,560 times
Reputation: 1831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy_Jole View Post
False.

Thousands Line Up for McDonald's Jobs in Atlanta - New America Media

You have thousands of people lining up to apply for McDonald's. Any other anti-America propaganda you care to share?
My point is that people should focus more on retraining those who have lost their manufacturing jobs, into highly skilled, much higher paying positions. Thousands of people applying for minimum waged jobs at McDonalds does not bode well for our continued prosperity, regardless of whether there are illegals here.
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Old 07-05-2011, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Malaysia
322 posts, read 450,949 times
Reputation: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy_Jole View Post
False.

Thousands Line Up for McDonald's Jobs in Atlanta - New America Media

You have thousands of people lining up to apply for McDonald's. Any other anti-America propaganda you care to share?
There are always vacancies at the Chinese restaurants. That is if you know how to flip the flying burning wok and able to stand the kitchen heat of 12 to 14 hours job. Actually, you got to flip two frying woks most of the time! Meanwhile. you gotta to clever enough slice carrots or potatoes into match sticks using a big cleaver instead of garnish or veggie knives. Most of the cutting are done with one size fit all and you better keep your eyes wide on your fingers!
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Old 07-05-2011, 01:18 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,155,041 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior101 View Post
I disagree with your statement. While it is true that illegals do other jobs such as housekeeping, dishwashing and burger flipping, I still don't think you're going to find many American citizens willing to do this type of back breaking work at minimum wage.

This is called structural unemployment, where many people involved in manufacturing have seen their jobs outsourced to China. They're more accustomed to earning a middle-class income and aren't willing to do the work that illegals do at minimum wage. So, you should blame our policy makers on how we deal with China, not the illegals here.
That's not true. Our youth and seniors are willing to work for minimum wage. Many of the jobs that illegals do never paid minimum wage until their arrival on the scene. Who do you think did those jobs prior to that?
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Old 07-05-2011, 01:47 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 2,801,858 times
Reputation: 1216
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior101 View Post
My point is that people should focus more on retraining those who have lost their manufacturing jobs, into highly skilled, much higher paying positions. Thousands of people applying for minimum waged jobs at McDonalds does not bode well for our continued prosperity, regardless of whether there are illegals here.
Your point is no point at all .. It's illogical, misinformed, and indicative of the b.s propaganda fed to people about pro illegal immigration.

So, we should support the importing of a bunch of low skilled leechers to fill jobs and drain public resources and train millions of Americans who are low skilled to perform higher skilled jobs that don't exist ... Yeah, that makes great sense and bodes well for prosperity ... They are applying out of necessity .. cutting benefits and handouts makes people aware of the necessity .. There is no such thing as work being beneath anyone.. Before I went and got my Masters at the top University in America for my major at the time, I ran a lawn business in FL ... Yeah, the ugly work apparently only mexicans will do .. I earned way more than my burger flipping highschool friends.. Learned a lot more about running a business, margins, etc ... and learned the great life lessons of hard labor/work.


As for the McDonalds reference .. Here are the more detailed stats :

"McDonald’s and its franchisees hired 62,000 people in the U.S. after receiving more than one million applications, the Oak Brook, Illinois-based company said today in an e-mailed statement. Previously, it said it planned to hire 50,000."
Source : McDonald

The b.s propaganda that is dumped on people about pro-illegal immigration/amnesty is of the same vein as the pro-outsourcing propaganda.. if you rewind back, idiot Americans were brainwashed into supporting it just as fooled Americans are now supporting this illegal immigration foolishness..

As I have stated many times in past posts, it's hilarious and sad that the people who are hurt the most by crap time and time again are the ones who are most vocally in support of it .. The leaders/power figures of the world laugh at this sad fact and gives them further justification (in their own minds) for screwing you over in support of their agendas... They say look at them.. the big lot of dummies .. if we don't do this to them .. take more of their freedom away.. more of their money away.. they will waste it and their potential like the silly people they are... So they take more and more from you and by all means, I hit the point years ago in support of this view.. Because y'all are just ____________ .
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Sacramento, Placerville
2,442 posts, read 4,878,019 times
Reputation: 2111
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior101 View Post
I disagree with your statement. While it is true that illegals do other jobs such as housekeeping, dishwashing and burger flipping, I still don't think you're going to find many American citizens willing to do this type of back breaking work at minimum wage.

This is called structural unemployment, where many people involved in manufacturing have seen their jobs outsourced to China. They're more accustomed to earning a middle-class income and aren't willing to do the work that illegals do at minimum wage. So, you should blame our policy makers on how we deal with China, not the illegals here.
I disagree with you. There are Americans who will do these jobs. Pay a little more and you will have that many more who will do these jobs. I disagree with the whole notion that it is ok to have illegal aliens to fill minimum wage jobs and having the taxpayers pick up the difference for employers who don't want to pay any more than minimum wage.

And it isn't uncommon to see Spanish as a requirement for many of these jobs. Read that as "Americans need not apply."

The working poor did these jobs for years, at minimum wage. The difference is Americans know what their rights are (overtime, safety issues, etc) while illegal aliens don't say much about them because they either don't think the laws apply to them (they do) or they fear something bad is going to happen if they complain about workplace issues. And in some cases they are paid cash, which makes them much cheaper than employing someone "on the books." So, when they get injured on the job the Americans get to pay for the medical costs for someone who shouldn't be in the country and some employer who didn't pay into the worker's comp fund gets off very cheap.

At any rate, go into a WalMart in a town that has very few Mexicans and you will see WalMart has no problem finding Americans to fill minimum wage positions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior101 View Post
My point is that people should focus more on retraining those who have lost their manufacturing jobs, into highly skilled, much higher paying positions. Thousands of people applying for minimum waged jobs at McDonalds does not bode well for our continued prosperity, regardless of whether there are illegals here.
That sounds nice in theory, but train for what high-skilled jobs? Specifically what? I can think of a few, but the reality is there isn't such an abundance of high-skilled positions available that is going to support a large middle-class because those high-skilled positions are being shifted to Asia whenever possible, and there is a very good chance we will be competing with the well-education Eastern European countries. I read an article about several US-based airlines having their routine mechanical work done in Poland, Russia and Ukraine. Ten years ago there was a lot of talk about a biotech boom in this country. There has been an expansion in that industry, but most of that has been in Asian and Eastern European countries. In order to train people we need to figure out what is next that isn't going to be moved overseas several years after it takes off.

Last edited by KC6ZLV; 07-05-2011 at 11:09 PM..
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:40 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,731,841 times
Reputation: 22159
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
The California Ag industry is a $40 billion dollar business, if you eliminate the illegals with finding a replacement, you will crash that industry, as Georgia is learning now.
Same arguments were made by the slave masters.

How about paying people a decent wage and inventing more machines?

Actually there are only about 1 million jobs total in agriculture including fisheries. Only about 25% of those jobs are held by illegals.

The H2A visa has no cap and can supply any needed guest workers - and what's really better about that is they don't have to come in unventilated semi trailers or pay cartel smugglers $5000 for the ride over the border. And they aren't going to be found in mass burial pits.
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Old 07-06-2011, 06:48 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,731,841 times
Reputation: 22159
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC6ZLV View Post
I don't buy the excuse Americans won't do these jobs. While it is true most Americans aren't too keen on doing farm labor, the employment of illegal aliens goes beyond the agricultural sector and into the restaurant business, hotels, warehousing, and everything else where employers have replaced American workers with illegal aliens because they pay them less, find it easier to take advantage of illegal aliens when they want to break labor laws, like paying minimum wage, overtime and occupational safety.

The agricultural sector needs to do more mechanization. The reason they aren't doing it is because it is cheaper to hire illegal aliens, and illegal aliens don't require periodic maintenance when they break down in the middle of a job. Employers just don't hire them and the taxpayers pay the medical costs. Meanwhile, another illegal alien dies from heatstroke in the fields of Kern County.

But back to who will do what jobs, I couldn't find any statistics on it, but the ag sector throughout the country has been screaming about a "labor shortage" for the last decade. Only a small percentage of illegal aliens who are looking for work head to the fields. It is much easier to find a job in an air-conditioned restaurant or hotel, and that is where most of them are getting jobs. Not the ag sector. And I will not believe for a minute that employers can't find Americans to vacuum the carpet at Motel 6 or flip burgers at McDonald's.
My brother-in-law is a farmer. He plows fields using a big nice tractor that has an air-conditioned cab, CD player and radio. He considers it nicer than sitting in a cubicle all day, a much better view and he can play his radio as loud as he likes.

Like you said - the problem with hiring Americans is you have to provide the safety, the machines that enable them to do the work, you have to pay legal wages. If you bring in illegals, there is no worker's comp to pay into, you can ignore the social security and other taxes, retirement plans, OSHA laws and so on because they won't care.
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