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Cato Institute is Libertarian. They would in general be considered in favor of open borders....though wrapped in a new system so foreign to what exists as to be irrelevant to the present discussion.
Illegals aren't immigrants. Illegals are illegal aliens. The two are not interchangeable as implied in your cite.
Ultimately it is really quite simply. No one should immigrate here unless they can first demonstrate fluency in English. A passing score on both the speaking and writing sections of TOEFL should be required for permanent residency.
Do you have a problem with that?
The only religion here seems to be that any sort of opposition to illegal immigration is grounded not in fact or reason but in mere bigotry.
Illegals aren't immigrants. Illegals are illegal aliens. The two are not interchangeable as implied in your cite.
Ultimately it is really quite simply. No one should immigrate here unless they can first demonstrate fluency in English. A passing score on both the speaking and writing sections of TOEFL should be required for permanent residency.
Do you have a problem with that?
The only religion here seems to be that any sort of opposition to illegal immigration is grounded not in fact or reason but in mere bigotry.
Well you got one interesting question and a classical display of your religious like bigotry.
Did you notice the part about the Germans in Wisconsin? You now agree that perhaps Europeans did not always learn the language quickly in "the old days"?
I have to think a bit about english as a permanent residency requirement. Has an instant appeal to me but I would think it would need to be done in an overall scheme of immigration so we did not run into unintended consequences.
But it does have appeal.
Your religious response is of course that illegal immigrants are not immigrants...they are that and they are mostly hispanic. And only one of strong religious conviction would suggest otherwise.
Well you got one interesting question and a classical display of your religious like bigotry.
Did you notice the part about the Germans in Wisconsin? You now agree that perhaps Europeans did not always learn the language quickly in "the old days"?
I have to think a bit about english as a permanent residency requirement. Has an instant appeal to me but I would think it would need to be done in an overall scheme of immigration so we did not run into unintended consequences.
But it does have appeal.
Your religious response is of course that illegal immigrants are not immigrants...they are that and they are mostly hispanic. And only one of strong religious conviction would suggest otherwise.
According to many other threads and comments, illegal aliens are more economic refugee than they are actual immigrants.
The Hispanic numbers in that study stink. It should be 90%s for 1st generation and 100% for second and third. I have known hundreds of immigrants from many countries. They all spoke English eventually. There was not one that lived here and died here that could not speak English. Some did not learn until their children learned English in school and were taught by them.
The study uses a German community in one area of one state. That was not the norm. There were ethnic neighborhoods in many places, but that was only a first generation thing. The reason for that was most likely teaching German in schools and German newspapers. That is why we have a problem today. With press 2 for Spanish, bilingual education, Telemundo, signs in stores in Spanish, etc things will never change. Change must be forced. English as the official language and not one word from any local, state or federal government or school in Spanish. Every other nationality handled it.
All 4 of my grandparents were born in Europe. By the time they died there was little accent left. They learned English and spoke it at home.
According to many other threads and comments, illegal aliens are more economic refugee than they are actual immigrants.
Actually I think I mostly agree with you that they come mostly for economic reasons.
I would also think that was true of the Italian and the Irish. I am not old enough to have experienced the other groups in quantity. But I do happen to have good experience with the Italians and the Irish.
Note though that it is not the outcome. The illegals get hooked like all the other immigrants and find they can't go back...or at least their children won't.
In our family the older Irish were all believed to be illegal. The older Italian were not...and in fact one went home. Changed his mind six months later but his children would not allow him to return.
The only other illegal was an Englishman. Father of an Uncle. Family lore says he was worried about it and would never consider leaving the US.
The Hispanic numbers in that study stink. It should be 90%s for 1st generation and 100% for second and third. I have known hundreds of immigrants from many countries. They all spoke English eventually. There was not one that lived here and died here that could not speak English. Some did not learn until their children learned English in school and were taught by them.
The study uses a German community in one area of one state. That was not the norm. There were ethnic neighborhoods in many places, but that was only a first generation thing. The reason for that was most likely teaching German in schools and German newspapers. That is why we have a problem today. With press 2 for Spanish, bilingual education, Telemundo, signs in stores in Spanish, etc things will never change. Change must be forced. English as the official language and not one word from any local, state or federal government or school in Spanish. Every other nationality handled it.
All 4 of my grandparents were born in Europe. By the time they died there was little accent left. They learned English and spoke it at home.
My wifes two grandparents died at old age after 50 years in the US and spoke no English. My grandfathers accent was so strong that his English was not comprehensible.
By the third generation more Hispanic don't speak Spanish than don't speak English...by a lot.
What is the time limit on speaking english and to what level of fluency? I think its easy for some to say immigrants should learn english and I agree that they should. But whats the time limit? 10 weeks 10 months 10 years?
I speak Thai and I think I do ok but a native speaker I am not nor am I likely to ever be. I think it unrealistic to expect perfect english.
I would agree that any applicant should be required to speak basic english and be able to get their point across. They should also be required to read at a certain level and write at the same level. Perfect grammar or spelling is not required but enough to communicate.
But the threads and comments are from rationality refugees...
Your sampling data is all wet...
As always...
Always the sarcastic wit.... one in every crowd.
Sorry that I don't post to your specifications, and yet you can't refute my comments to any degree. At best all you have ever done is clarify or define my comments.
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