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Old 03-24-2009, 04:43 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,625,689 times
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[quote=camping!;8026615]
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post

Obama and mccain spoke to them for the same reason -- both were whoring for votes.
"Whoring" is such an ugly word. I prefer to say that Obama and McCain were both intensely interested in reaching out to what they percieved as "Hispanics", and were willing to go against their own common sense, swallow their pride, 'put the blinders on', and forget ethics and honesty for what they saw as something which transcends ethics, morals, or honesty...and that is "Power".

But "whoring"? Such an UGLY word..."willingness to scr*w the public"? Maybe..
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Old 03-24-2009, 05:06 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,904,513 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Cultlike?
Hmm, this type of rhetoric sounds familiar...where have I heard it before?
The battle for the 20th Senate District in California should provide a very valuable lesson for La Raza. In our political struggle for self-determination, we can not assume the certain groups will be our friends. Jews have catered for our vote in the past but when it comes our turn to share in real political power, they will turn their face and become our enemies.
La Raza and Jews on Collision Course in Alta California

Ah,yes thats right -- the Nazis.
Apparently 'la raza' doesn't include jews.

This is the bottom line, why name your otherwise benign advocacy group after a known racist group? Would you feel good about going to the Aryan Brotherhood BB-Q? Hell no. Frankly, you sound just like the Stormfront bozos who try (and fail) to say that while they belong to the Nazi party, it really isn't the nazi party of WWII --sort of, kind of. After all - they don't have concentration camps...yet.

So, no I don't believe the phrase 'la raza' to be innocent. I don't believe people who latch onto racist fringe groups but attempt to distance their group from the racist group with the same exact name, claiming it to be totally different.
It's not, and you know its not. It also is not only the white persons responsibility to stand up to racists within our own ethnic groups. Hate is hate, no matter how you try to pretty it up.

Preach on. It's about as innocent as pretending that illegal aliens are angelic and legal "immigrants".

Bravo, excellent posts back to back. Unfortunately I gotta spread a little love. IOU 2 reps.
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Old 03-24-2009, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,900,859 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post

Cultlike?
Hmm, this type of rhetoric sounds familiar...where have I heard it before?
The battle for the 20th Senate District in California should provide a very valuable lesson for La Raza. In our political struggle for self-determination, we can not assume the certain groups will be our friends. Jews have catered for our vote in the past but when it comes our turn to share in real political power, they will turn their face and become our enemies.
La Raza and Jews on Collision Course in Alta California

Ah,yes thats right -- the Nazis.
Apparently 'la raza' doesn't include jews.

This is the bottom line, why name your otherwise benign advocacy group after a known racist group? Would you feel good about going to the Aryan Brotherhood BB-Q? Hell no. Frankly, you sound just like the Stormfront bozos who try (and fail) to say that while they belong to the Nazi party, it really isn't the nazi party of WWII --sort of, kind of. After all - they don't have concentration camps...yet.

So, no I don't believe the phrase 'la raza' to be innocent. I don't believe people who latch onto racist fringe groups but attempt to distance their group from the racist group with the same exact name, claiming it to be totally different.
It's not, and you know its not. It also is not only the white persons responsibility to stand up to racists within our own ethnic groups. Hate is hate, no matter how you try to pretty it up.

LOL...you take your quote from a site called aztlan.net.
What "La Raza" organization is this? Or is this shabby site connected to the NCLR somehow?

You just found a crappy site that backed up your views, huh?
How about pulling something from the NCLR site that sounds as extreme as that poorly made extremist site?
Are you being obtuse on purpose?? You are ridiculous.
Who is this "La Raza" racist group the NCLR named themselves after? Do you even know, or are you just googling the term La Raza, and seeing the most extreme stuff you can find?

LA RAZA IS AN EXPRESSION, A TERM FOR MEXICAN-AMERICANS/CHICANOS, NOT, I REPEAT NOT, SOME ORGANIZATION. SEVERAL DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS USE THAT TERM, BECAUSE THEY IDENTIFTY THEMSELVES AS CHICANO.
AGAIN! LA RAZA IS A TERM/EXPRESSION FOR A GROUP, NOT AN ORGANIZATION OR POLITICAL PARTY.

You have a very thick mental block, and you can't wrap your brain around the INCREDIBLY SIMPLE concept that La Raza is an expression that became popular among Mexican-Americans(Chicanos) in the 60s, when they realized their identity as members of this country(as opposed to what they were referred to as:MEXICANS).
In the 40 something years since that term has been used by Chicanos, a few groups have incorporated that term into their organizations, because they are representing Chicanos. Some are extreme, some are not. NCLR is one of those that do not.
NCLR has stances on immigration you don't agree with. So do other other non-Latino organizations. Does that make those organizations racist too?

It's not that hard, and I don't know why youre being so narrowminded to not consider you might be WRONG about your nutty la raza conspiracy. You sound like a conspiracy nut. I used to think you were a little smarter than this, and were just against illegal aliens, but you're sounding like one of those guys on the street corner carrying signs that Mexicans are trying to start reconquista.

I can't even carry on this conversation anymore, because you are being intentionally obtuse, and not trying to understand the term "la raza" outside the context of this fear and rabid anger against Mexican illegal immigrants.

When it sinks in that you are completely off about your whole La Raza connected illuminati, get back at me.


Maybe you should start exploring the so called coincidence between the National Association of Korean Americans and the international gang that has a presence in the US, Korean Pride.
Yeah right, Koreans..suuuuure...coincidence...you're not getting past Camping! with your little "accidental" sharing of a word.

Last edited by antialphabet; 03-24-2009 at 09:54 PM..
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Old 03-24-2009, 10:38 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,042,756 times
Reputation: 2873
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
LOL...you take your quote from a site called aztlan.net.
What "La Raza" organization is this? Or is this shabby site connected to the NCLR somehow?

You just found a crappy site that backed up your views, huh?
How about pulling something from the NCLR site that sounds as extreme as that poorly made extremist site?
Are you being obtuse on purpose?? You are ridiculous.
Who is this "La Raza" racist group the NCLR named themselves after? Do you even know, or are you just googling the term La Raza, and seeing the most extreme stuff you can find?

LA RAZA IS AN EXPRESSION, A TERM FOR MEXICAN-AMERICANS/CHICANOS, NOT, I REPEAT NOT, SOME ORGANIZATION. SEVERAL DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS USE THAT TERM, BECAUSE THEY IDENTIFTY THEMSELVES AS CHICANO.
AGAIN! LA RAZA IS A TERM/EXPRESSION FOR A GROUP, NOT AN ORGANIZATION OR POLITICAL PARTY.

You have a very thick mental block, and you can't wrap your brain around the INCREDIBLY SIMPLE concept that La Raza is an expression that became popular among Mexican-Americans(Chicanos) in the 60s, when they realized their identity as members of this country(as opposed to what they were referred to as:MEXICANS).
In the 40 something years since that term has been used by Chicanos, a few groups have incorporated that term into their organizations, because they are representing Chicanos. Some are extreme, some are not. NCLR is one of those that do not.
NCLR has stances on immigration you don't agree with. So do other other non-Latino organizations. Does that make those organizations racist too?

It's not that hard, and I don't know why youre being so narrowminded to not consider you might be WRONG about your nutty la raza conspiracy. You sound like a conspiracy nut. I used to think you were a little smarter than this, and were just against illegal aliens, but you're sounding like one of those guys on the street corner carrying signs that Mexicans are trying to start reconquista.

I can't even carry on this conversation anymore, because you are being intentionally obtuse, and not trying to understand the term "la raza" outside the context of this fear and rabid anger against Mexican illegal immigrants.

When it sinks in that you are completely off about your whole La Raza connected illuminati, get back at me.


Maybe you should start exploring the so called coincidence between the National Association of Korean Americans and the international gang that has a presence in the US, Korean Pride.
Yeah right, Koreans..suuuuure...coincidence...you're not getting past Camping! with your little "accidental" sharing of a word.
Oh, cut the crap. Obtuse, thick headed yada yada yada.

Maybe there are dozens, hundreds hell lets say thousands of groups that use the phrase 'la raza'. Are they all racist? Are they all crazy? No, of course not. But why not do everything in your power to distance yourself from racists? This argument may be over semantics, but it does remind me of the meth heads that named their son 'adolf hitler' and yet couldn't understand why some people just might infer that they are a family of neo nazis. Go figure, right?

But fine -- lets have it your way. The phrase la raza is utterly benign. All groups having that phrase in their name are also utterly benign.
But you might want to remind this guy of that before the next protest:


Because somewhere along the line, a lot of people are getting a very different message of what la raza means. whether its the Tx professor Guiterrez who opined open warfare or protestors that hung the US flag upside down underneath the Mexican flag at the same protest.

You are telling me that those are just random wack a loons. Sure, I get that - there are those in every group. The difference is how you treat those wack a loons. It is why I chose to leave the rep party -- they didn't slap down their racists and religous nutjobs hard enough or fast enough. And when that happens, a message is being sent. A message that says - we agree with you, we may not admit it, but we agree with you.
I don't want any party of that bull****. You do - thats fine. Look the other way, down play them. But if you ignore the dangerous nutjobs long enough, they will multiply and take over. again, look to the republican party and learn a lesson.

And yes, I am against only the illegal immigrants, and even then only because of their sheer numbers. Individually they are nice people. I know - I camp with many of them in the summertime. (presumptive of me, I know, but I think a pretty good guess considering the location and other factors.) As I have said in the past, if we were talking about several thousand or even several hundred thousand it would be a different story. But not the millions we have now, especially not combined with all the immigrants still coming in.
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Old 03-24-2009, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,900,859 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Oh, cut the crap. Obtuse, thick headed yada yada yada.

Maybe there are dozens, hundreds hell lets say thousands of groups that use the phrase 'la raza'. Are they all racist? Are they all crazy? No, of course not. But why not do everything in your power to distance yourself from racists? This argument may be over semantics, but it does remind me of the meth heads that named their son 'adolf hitler' and yet couldn't understand why some people just might infer that they are a family of neo nazis. Go figure, right?

But fine -- lets have it your way. The phrase la raza is utterly benign. All groups having that phrase in their name are also utterly benign.
But you might want to remind this guy of that before the next protest:


Because somewhere along the line, a lot of people are getting a very different message of what la raza means. whether its the Tx professor Guiterrez who opined open warfare or protestors that hung the US flag upside down underneath the Mexican flag at the same protest.

You are telling me that those are just random wack a loons. Sure, I get that - there are those in every group. The difference is how you treat those wack a loons. It is why I chose to leave the rep party -- they didn't slap down their racists and religous nutjobs hard enough or fast enough. And when that happens, a message is being sent. A message that says - we agree with you, we may not admit it, but we agree with you.
I don't want any party of that bull****. You do - thats fine. Look the other way, down play them. But if you ignore the dangerous nutjobs long enough, they will multiply and take over. again, look to the republican party and learn a lesson.

And yes, I am against only the illegal immigrants, and even then only because of their sheer numbers. Individually they are nice people. I know - I camp with many of them in the summertime. (presumptive of me, I know, but I think a pretty good guess considering the location and other factors.) As I have said in the past, if we were talking about several thousand or even several hundred thousand it would be a different story. But not the millions we have now, especially not combined with all the immigrants still coming in.
Why don't they separate themselves from "racists"? BECAUSE THE ORIGINAL USE OF THE TERM WAS NOT RACIST, BUT ONE OF IDENTIFY AND PRIDE IN WHO THEY WERE!

Yes there are extremist loons that have used the term and distorted it.

But if we have to paint everyone with a broadbrush, should we associate you guys with the stormfront posters, and racists that love to "secretly" join the ranks of other anti-illegals?
You wouldn't like that very much would you?
A lot of you guys say the same thing, a lot of you guys call yourselves "patriots". Is that a weeeirrd coincidence too? A weeiird accident?

Stop being a hypocrite, and just admit you don't understand a damn thing about the term "La Raza" and Chicano history in this country outside of the context of illegal immigration politics.

I'm not going to bash a legitimate political organization(NCLR) and give up a term that has a lot of history in this country, because someone is too ignorant to make a distinction between that, and extremists.

I'm not "distancing myself" from the term, it has history and means something to me, how about you distance yourself from your bias and trying to understand things outside the context of illegals?

Don't answer that, it's a rhetorical.
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Old 03-24-2009, 11:29 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,772,681 times
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Pride in who they are???? La Raza has nothing to do with what kind of person one is, nothing to do with one's accomplishments as an individual. It's all about racial pride, thinking your race is superior to that of others. It's all about race.

"La Raza" The Race as though being of the Mexican race makes you better than people of other races. A superior race that is not expected to abide by the laws of the USA, a sense of entitlement all for your race and nothing more.
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Old 03-24-2009, 11:34 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,772,681 times
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"La Raza" or The Race is why many people believe that their race should not be obligated to follow immigration laws. You don't see the La Raza leaders advocate for unlimited immigration from European, African or Asian nations. When Haitians arrive on our shores in boats and are rounded up in Miami to be deported, you won't see La Raza out protesting for the rights of Haitians to come here in unlimited numbers or to be given citizenship because they showed up on our shores.

La Raza isn't saying that all people from all backgrounds and all countries have the right to come here as they please and must be handed USA citizenship with all the benefits, La Raza is saying that all "raza" people have that right.
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:40 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,900,859 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Pride in who they are???? La Raza has nothing to do with what kind of person one is, nothing to do with one's accomplishments as an individual. It's all about racial pride, thinking your race is superior to that of others. It's all about race.

"La Raza" The Race as though being of the Mexican race makes you better than people of other races. A superior race that is not expected to abide by the laws of the USA, a sense of entitlement all for your race and nothing more.
You're making up your own story for it. Don't expect much else from you.

Would you be so scathing toward an African-American proud of who he is? Of a Japanese person proud of his roots? An Irishman? An Italian-American?
No, because you have an agenda specifically against Mexican-Americans. I don't see you cruising your high horse through any other country's forums. Just the Mexican forum.

You are distorting people having pride in who they are, and developing that pride and identity at a time when America made it very clear who the "superior race" was, and made it very clear what that "superior race" was entitled to in this continent.

You then throw a bunch of politics into it, mixing it up into the discussion as if it's naturally related to it.

This country was all about racial superiority, and when groups of people decide they don't want to gain approval of that dominant group, and wanted to be proud of who they are, you try to twist it into something bad and evil.

Just another white guy trying to wear the victim hat, in a time when America is as close to being equal as it's ever been.

Like I've told Mac, I'd rather live in a country where many people are proud of their roots and who they are(or as you guys seeing it, thinking they are more special than everyone else), than a nation where only ONE group thinks they are more special than everyone else, and everyone else has to "gain their approval". Believe it's not just "raza" who have pride and identity in this country.

You couldn't have your discussion about "La Raza" seperately without going into illegal immigration politics, because you know how your agenda would look.
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:50 AM
 
2,088 posts, read 2,188,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
You're making up your own story for it. Don't expect much else from you.

Would you be so scathing toward an African-American proud of who he is? Of a Japanese person proud of his roots? An Irishman? An Italian-American?
No, because you have an agenda specifically against Mexican-Americans. I don't see you cruising your high horse through any other country's forums. Just the Mexican forum.

You are distorting people having pride in who they are, and developing that pride and identity at a time when America made it very clear who the "superior race" was, and made it very clear what that "superior race" was entitled to in this continent.

You then throw a bunch of politics into it, mixing it up into the discussion as if it's naturally related to it.

This country was all about racial superiority, and when groups of people decide they don't want to gain approval of that dominant group, and wanted to be proud of who they are, you try to twist it into something bad and evil.

Just another white guy trying to wear the victim hat, in a time when America is as close to being equal as it's ever been.

Like I've told Mac, I'd rather live in a country where many people are proud of their roots and who they are(or as you guys seeing it, thinking they are more special than everyone else), than a nation where only ONE group thinks they are more special than everyone else, and everyone else has to "gain their approval". Believe it's not just "raza" who have pride and identity in this country.

You couldn't have your discussion about "La Raza" seperately without going into illegal immigration politics, because you know how your agenda would look.
What is this guy's problem?

No one has a problem with people being proud of their heritage. It is when those people use their heritage as an excuse to support wide open borders and unlimited illegal immigration that it becomes an issue to criticize.

You obviously have some issues with white people.

Just another Mexican who is a race-baiting pro-illegal.
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Old 03-25-2009, 01:03 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,900,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonian123 View Post
What is this guy's problem?

No one has a problem with people being proud of their heritage. It is when those people use their heritage as an excuse to support wide open borders and unlimited illegal immigration that it becomes an issue to criticize.

You obviously have some issues with white people.

Just another Mexican who is a race-baiting pro-illegal.
haha.

I don't have issues with white people.

Just those who get angry when Mexican-Americans are proud of their heritage, overexamine terms like "la raza", try to project all old insecurities onto Latinos, cry about "reverse racism", act like a more diverse and integrated society is a bad thing that will surely lead to the doom of the world, etc etc..

Why do you guys ALWAYS always always try to speak for all of you?
"no one has a problem with__"
"nobody thinks _____"
"nobody says_____"

haha, no surprise though that the first time I mention "white people" on this board, one of you jumps in and starts making accusations. Very typical.
You guys are so desperate to throw the race card yourselves, it's pathetic. You guys do it every chance you get. I think it's a thrill for you guys.

And I'm not "Mexican", I'm Chicano. AKA Mexican-AMERICAN.
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