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Old 05-04-2010, 10:57 PM
 
111 posts, read 112,421 times
Reputation: 25

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Funny thing is, a lot of Mexicans have Sephardic Jewish ancestry.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:25 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,408,714 times
Reputation: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
You infer by your posting that asking illegal immigrants to prove their right to be in this country is closely akin to the beginning of the end for Jews in Europe--that America is sliding down the slippery slope to becoming just like Nazi Germany. You say you're not comparing Latinos to the Holocaust victims (yet) but it is apparent you have no problem with the analogy of the Latinos as the Jewish victims of the Nazi government.

How dare you!

How dare you minimize the suffering and slaughter of over eleven million people at the hands of a mad man and his German Nazi death machine by comparing the enforcement of immigration law to the victims of the Holocaust? Trivialization of Nazism and the Holocaust is highly offensive. It galls me that you and people of your ilk now serve up this comparison like yesterday's leftover meatloaf merely to serve your political agenda.

It worse than offensive.

It is immoral.
Do not twist my words Kele. I stated that I do not equate what is currently happening to Latinos with the Jewish Holocaust. I made that very clear. My comparison was with the 1930's immigration law of "white paper". That part of the Jewish history...in case you didnt understand.

More over, you are mixing two subjects in one. Most of my resent posts are not on immigration reform. I'm speaking on the AZ law in which Latinos are subject to racial profiling.

I provided very credible sources to back my claim. I didnt just pull it out of a hat. Furthermore, if I was to choose between your "How dare you" opinion and the sources I provided, I would go with the sources I posted. They are educated, informative and are first hand experience on the subject.

If you feel like challenging it, why dont you take it up with the sources...a Profesor and son of the Jewish Holocaust victim, the Jewish Community, Tutu from Apartheid, etc. These are all people who are experts on the subject and it is THEY who made the comparison. Go ahead and take it up with them, I'm sure it will be an insult to their intelligence.

In case you didnt look at the sources, I will post them again.

The Grand Canyon State is now a police state: Connie Schultz | - cleveland.com

Quote:
"I don't make these comparisons lightly," he said last week. "This Arizona law is like the Nuremberg laws, which stripped Jews of their rights. This time, the law is aimed at Latinos."
http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/...mmigration-law

Quote:
The new law has been criticized by an array of Jewish groups, including the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, Anti-Defamation League, American Jewish Committee, Simon Wiesenthal Center, National Council of Jewish Women and the Jewish Council for Public Affairs, a public policy umbrella group composed of the synagogue movements, several national groups and local Jewish communities across North America.
Desmond Tutu: Arizona: The Wrong Answer

Quote:
I am not speaking from an ivory tower. I lived in the South Africa that has now thankfully faded into history, where a black man or woman could be grabbed off the street and thrown in jail for not having his or her documents on their person.
How far can this go? We lived it -- police waking a man up in the middle of the night and hauling him off to jail for not having his documents on his person while he slept. The fact that they were in his nightstand near the bed was not good enough.
Quote:
Abominations such as apartheid do not start with an entire population suddenly becoming inhumane. They start here. They start with generalizing unwanted characteristics across an entire segment of a population. They start with trying to solve a problem by asserting superior force over a population. They start with stripping people of rights and dignity - such as the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty - that you yourself enjoy. Not because it is right, but because you can. And because somehow, you think this is going to solve a problem.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:47 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,408,714 times
Reputation: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Beyond words. It's just appalling. It's a sacrilege. The world has lost its mind. The inmates are running the asylum.

No further comment....it's like witnessing the Death of Common Sense.
macmeal, you know I have always respected you even when I disagree with you.

Explain to me where common sense is here:

The Rachel Maddow Show - Post-Show Factcheck: Dan Stein of FAIR

FAIR pays to get for the AZ immigration bill
FAIR has history of hate groups with its members
New bill targets ethnic studies in AZ schools
Opinion | Anti-immigration zealotry goes after the children | Seattle Times Newspaper

Latinos are subject to racial profiling.
Nazi groups in AZ given a platform. (of course, this is constitutional)

This is not including the number of people that have expressed to me feeling descriminated due to their color in AZ...(ignored when talked to, refused customer service, etc) AZ Bear has even admitted to this on the forum.

Is this common sense to you? Are we still in denial that there is an anti-semitism against Latinos? That there is a push to oppress Latinos? I remind you that I am speaking on the AZ bill and not immigration reform.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:03 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
macmeal, you know I have always respected you even when I disagree with you.

Explain to me where common sense is here:

The Rachel Maddow Show - Post-Show Factcheck: Dan Stein of FAIR

FAIR pays to get for the AZ immigration bill
FAIR has history of hate groups with its members
New bill targets ethnic studies in AZ schools
Opinion | Anti-immigration zealotry goes after the children | Seattle Times Newspaper

Latinos are subject to racial profiling.
Nazi groups in AZ given a platform. (of course, this is constitutional)

This is not including the number of people that have expressed to me feeling descriminated due to their color in AZ...(ignored when talked to, refused customer service, etc) AZ Bear has even admitted to this on the forum.

Is this common sense to you? Are we still in denial that there is an anti-semitism against Latinos? That there is a push to oppress Latinos? I remind you that I am speaking on the AZ bill and not immigration reform.
This is just all nonsense.
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:31 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
macmeal, you know I have always respected you even when I disagree with you.



This is not including the number of people that have expressed to me feeling descriminated due to their color in AZ...(ignored when talked to, refused customer service, etc) AZ Bear has even admitted to this on the forum.

Is this common sense to you? Are we still in denial that there is an anti-semitism against Latinos? That there is a push to oppress Latinos? I remind you that I am speaking on the AZ bill and not immigration reform.
The above is what I'd call 'nastiness'. This sort of racism I've witnessed myself...and yes, of course it exists. I've written on this very subject a number of times.

However, it's a long way from individual 'bad manners' by an occasional unhappy racist, and "official, Government-sanctioned, South-Africa style racial categorization". I DO NOT believe this will happen in Arizona; I do not think we as a society would tolerate it. Illegals are not a 'race', and I DO NOT envision th police in Arizona simply 'pulling over' large groups of Hispanics (as was done to blacks during apartheid in SA).

I don't like to see this happen, (the AZ law, that is).. but I feel the time has come for SOME sort of remedy...and permitting the police to ask about 'status' seems pretty mild to me, if it occurs during a 'normal' interaction. (No, I do not believe the cops are going to be allowed to just 'pull over illegals'...MUCH less Latinos)

We disagree as we often do, but I believe you're 'overblowing' this thing. I could be wrong, but at this time, I can honestly tell you that I would not be 'afraid' to travel in Arizona with my wife and loved ones...(many of whom 'look illegal')...because I don't think 'looks' is what's going to be a problem.

Once again, I don't like the situation, and admit I may be naive. But at this point, I don't envision any 'South African'...or 'Nazi German'-type stuff occurring in Arizona...not even close. I'd be willing to bet on it. But I DO understand why those opposed to this law may make these accusations...it carries a lot of emotional weight.

Thanks for your posts...

Last edited by macmeal; 05-10-2010 at 06:08 PM..
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:24 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,025,534 times
Reputation: 17687
Seriously, as it is now we have two sets of laws. A LEO cannot ask someone about their status, period. I've posted this before but if someone currently looks like they might be here illegally the LEO will look the other way. Why? Because they pretty much have to. They will get a fake name, address and some line about, "no speak Engles'. It is a complete joke the situation the Illegals have put LE in now. They cannot detain them so the Illegals are immune to our laws.
What this law does is give LE the ability to actually do something about these law breakers (and not just for immigration violations but ALL violatons) and the lawlessness. It's absurd a State had to come up with a new law to give Illegals accountibility.
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:36 AM
 
166 posts, read 212,125 times
Reputation: 117
[quote=Kele;14022203]What is the first thought that comes to your mind when you see the photo from Saturday's L.A. march below?



It literally turns my stomach. To draw this parallel is an insult to the intelligence of anyone with an ounce of sense.
Let's see
Illegals are here by choice.
They can go home.
they can voice their opinions (no matter how insane)
no one is rounding them up and gassing them.
To equate this with the plight of the Jewish people is an outrage!
My hope is that this will open the eyes of someone who's 'sitting on the fence' when it comes to believability. Illegals are criminals who wil use anything to avoid taking responsibility.
The 'poor pitiful me' card is getting as worn and frayed as the race card!
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:42 AM
 
1,150 posts, read 990,683 times
Reputation: 369
My first thought? Ridiculous!

I don't think being deported is anywhere near akin to being marched off to a death camp.
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:44 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,025,534 times
Reputation: 17687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayarcy View Post
My first thought? Ridiculous!

I don't think being deported is anywhere near akin to being marched off to a death camp.

Especially since most want to fleece as much money as they can then return home.

The relationship is ridiculous.
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