review: best schools by state according to published rankings (Buffalo: crime rates, how much)

[monkeygorilla]

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

The pay is only "high" in areas where unions have seized control of the teacher labor market like ours, and that is an anomaly compared to real wages in the vast majority of the country where teachers are more routinely underpaid than overpaid.

Also plenty of LI'ers that are NOT smart nor talented go into teaching precisely because they know their connections will get them a job unfairly. Again, the crony network.

Would you really want your kids to be in a school where the teachers are routinely underpaid? I certainly wouldn't. But that's me. Apparently many people would prefer that.

[ny789987]

Originally Posted by monkeygorilla

Would you really want your kids to be in a school where the teachers are routinely underpaid? I certainly wouldn't. But that's me. Apparently many people would prefer that.

I would rather live in a school district where the teachers weren't grossly overcompensated, didn't secure their position through blatant cronyism, and where I wasn't flushing an extra couple of thousand dollars down the toilet every year for no reason. Why don't you start a business where you pay semi-qualified people well above market wages just for the fun of it?

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by monkeygorilla

Would you really want your kids to be in a school where the teachers are routinely underpaid? I certainly wouldn't. But that's me. Apparently many people would prefer that.

No, that is NOT what I'm saying! I believe in fair pay for all! Just not exorbitant total compensation because your union is big and wealthy enough to donate tons of money to politicians, who in turn give you every ridiculous thing you want and just use the taxpayers as your cash cows.

I also said "more routinely" underpaid than overpaid not meaning all teachers in parts of the country without bully unions are underpaid, but meaning when there is a compensation issue with teachers, it usually falls on the side of underpaid, rather than what happens on LI.

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by ny789987

I would rather live in a school district where the teachers weren't grossly overcompensated, didn't secure their position through blatant cronyism, and where I wasn't flushing an extra couple of thousand dollars down the toilet every year for no reason. Why don't you start a business where you pay semi-qualified people well above market wages just for the fun of it?

LMAO! Or instead she could apply to be a LI school superintendent or chief of police!

[ny789987]

Basically, it all boils down to the fact that on Long Island you are paying through the nose for mediocre to (at best) above average education. Certainly, Jericho is the gold standard, but how many people can afford to live in Jericho? Your average wage earner certainly cannot. When you measure these sorts of things, you should focus more on the mean. If I was rich or a member of the top 1%, I would live in Beverly Hills, but that is not an apt comparison. The fact remains that my PA school district produces scoring results which are significantly better than a number of Long Island districts that spend significantly more per pupil in administrative, teacher, and legacy costs.

[zulu400]

In short - if anything has to be taken with a grain of salt, it has to be the various "state wide stats about education".

A simple exercise....
Certain things to be considered before you read what I have to say...

1. You accept the US News result as is for all states. What that means is that you accept that if a school from somewhere south is ranked above a Long Island school, then it "IS" actually better.

2. We are going to consider only Public Schools (open enrollment).

3. Students from all states do get into the Top colleges in the US. This is a fact.

4. Median housing sale prices are a good indication of cost of living and affordability and if housing costs the same you can assume that LI taxes are more than "somewhere else" (unless that somewhere is in a state that starts with CA), So I am ignoring CA.

5. If you blindly consider LI to be the best and are are not open to opinions, save your time and skip the rest of this post.

Now, onto the theory....
Since the OP mentioned Top 500, we start from the bottom,
#486 = Floral Park, NY.
Median house = $463K (T=Trulia), $500K (Z=Zillow)... move up the list to look at other cities not on LI....

#484 = Avon Lake, OH
Median house = $255K (T), $192K (Z)

#483 = McKinney, TX
$198K(Z)

#482 = Phoenix, AZ
$165K (T) $160K (Z)

#481 = Palm Harbor, FL
$170K (T), $179K (Z)
.
.
.
. so on till you hit another excellent LI school and then the comparison price gets reset.

#412 = Dix Hills, NY
$515K (T), $652 (Z)

#411 = Sugar Land, TX
$250K-$300K

#409 = Cape Elizabeth, ME (Not South)
$320K

#408 = Colorado Springs, CO
$195K
.
.
.
.... and so on...

I have also ignored places in NY like Williamsville (near Buffalo) that is outside Long Island because we are mostly proud of LI schools.

Basically what I'm saying is that there are excellent schools all over the country (outside LI).
LI schools are excellent, there is no doubt, but they are not value for money.
If you choose to live on LI in a school that ranks #500 in the country, it means that you could live elsewhere outside LI where your kids can go to a better school.

This is purely a statistical exercise, it will never replace the feelings/emotions of staying close to family especially parents (its priceless). But its also not fair to not acknowledge what the analysis points to.
If someone does move, its hard to assume that they will move from LI with kids and not think of moving to the same (if not better) school district.

And that is why the state wide results that people publish here about how as a state NY or CA ranks so high really does not matter.
As the PP said, Schools like Jericho, Manhasset are awesome, but does your kid go there ? Too bad....

Now where is that "grain of salt" ?

[MikeyKid]

LI is not a state - nobody will mention that in the countless discussions we've had on this subject.

As much as one will continue to try and justify the "good schools", you can't even do that for LI as a whole. Riverhead, Longwood, and Roosevelt are not "good" by osmosis because they share geography with the likes of CSH and Jericho. Nobody can convince me Ronkonkoma students are getting a better public education then the best schools in any of the popular relocation spots - at a fraction of the cost.

You buy a house mainly the same way in other states as you do on LI, schools being high on the list of requirements. It's disingenuous to say otherwise because we all know you don't attend "LI schools" - you attend a specific district completely autonomous from other districts on LI. The only thing they share is a heavy tax burden.

[grilba]

Originally Posted by VA Yankee

As other posters have stated you should experience somewhere else. My tax rate is $8.70 per 1k assessed value for everything. We have only property tax which pays for schools, libraries, parks etc even snow removal if needed. When your work force receives fair compensation and not union inflated wages communities can provide the services at a reasonable cost. Our schools are excellent with the same college opportunities for the graduates that your grads have.

I have experienced "someplace else" numerous "someplace else's" I am not impressed at all. My friends who have moved have had the same experiences. The schools suck unless you are willing to pay for an upper middle class area. Many other places have a huge discrepancy between the "haves" and the "have nots"

[grilba]

Originally Posted by BigMike50

You said that the the students that do take the SAT in the south... you have to take their scores with a grain of salt So my sons that take the SAT in in VA...their scores aren't compatible to my nephews in NY? .... I asked why?

And you say that the ACT is easier then the SAT.....well that's a matter of opinion not fact

The lower percentage of students taking the SAT the higher the scores. Only the cream of the crop will take the SAT in quite a few states, and it shows in the scores.

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by monkeygorilla

Would you really want your kids to be in a school where the teachers are routinely underpaid? I certainly wouldn't. But that's me. Apparently many people would prefer that.

Underpaid relative to what? The next district over?