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Well, recent if you consider the last 130 years recent. A hundred years ago immigration was much higher than today when considered as a percentage of existing population. So much for the recent talk of "invasion."
How do you find the time to hunt out, track down and report so many different immigrants and, more important, why is it so important to you? Are you personally damaged by these people?
130 years ago, people entering USA had to have money in their pockets, be disease free, and did not receive food stamps, housing, medical, etc. 130 years ago, immigrants had to learn English to succeed and made strides to improve their place in life, despite sentiment of the era against groups. They weren't a drain on society and did not expect the US to give in to their demands. Immigrants were responsible for themselves.
Quote:
“In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”
SO the peanut gallery again start ranting but offer zero solutions to the economic realities that caused the mess and keeps the laws unenforced.
"Who care about my poor fellow Americans.." What a crock! Until you show some concern for corporate and defense welfare, trickle down, tax dodging, bank speculation, expatriation of massive wealth...you are full of beans. Systematic looting of the economy has been in effect since 1980. THAT IS WHY THE MIGRANTS ARE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. We've jobbed out labor from then until now and gutted the middle class. Automation is the next assault. Manufacturing is NOT COMING BACK.
...and you have daily erections over the new regime...who are doubling down on all of it. Debt, rich get richer, blah blah. Poor Americans because Juan is picking all the broccoli instead of him. Sure, go peddle that ridiculous narrative down at CPAC. Not at me. They've got you so duped.
None of you can focus on the economics (and you can make your silly swipe that I read "The Economist...I don't, lol)...because when you do, you go off the rails and start talking about bizarre social conditions like Americans can't have enough children due to space constraints caused by Mexicans (wtf?!?). Many shades of cuckoo right there. Americans don't have kids because they can't stay married and it costs a lot...or they're gay...or they don't like kids. haha. This isn't China. We have no laws against procreating.
American's can't make a toaster anymore either. Or we just don't want to pay what it costs for an American to make a toaster...or pick a tomato.
Deal with THAT reality. All it takes is enforcing the employment laws already on the books. Don't employ;oy them. They go home. THAT is what has more or less been happening since the recession anyway.
Blah blah blah, I addressed this pages ago. The economy serves the people, not the other way around. What matters is the quality of life for citizens.
A good measure of American prosperity has come at the expense of other Americans, and now we're running out of fellow Americans to defraud and exploit. That is it.
It explains a lot. We have cheaper food and cheaper clothing because we allow textiles to be shipped in from overseas and migrant labor to come in and work for pennies. We have cheap disposable electronics because all that manufacturing was sent to East Asia. Eliminating those kinds of jobs put us on the education and two earner household treadmills. The education becomes necessary because wages for blue collar work have stagnated and the jobs have declined per capita.
Having decimated working class jobs, we've moved on to leveraging wages down through corporate consolidation, which reduces job security and makes it more difficult for labor to negotiate for better pay (if you work in any job where there are 50 people doing roughly the same thing, you are easily replaceable). We have what are essentially sweathouses of programmers and lawyers getting paid far below their industry medians. All the money that would ordinarily go to these people gets captured at the top. It's the logic of mass business, which is why I so strongly advocate breakups to restore balance (and we'll have to get used to not throwing so much stuff away).
The American Way has become scrabbling atop a human pyramid of other Americans, and if you can make it to the top you're fine. If you can't--and that's a larger and larger percentage of Americans now--you're doomed to life as a permanently indebted serf.
Your neighbors, in short, are conforming to the rules of a system that rewards complete selfishness, no doubt while telling themselves that "anyone" can do this (never underestimate someone's tendency to assume that he has come out ahead due to his own hard work and talent rather than chance). But we're running out of Americans who can say that. So now we have two choices: flail around without understanding the nature of the problem, sinking into much deeper problem, or discover what is wrong and fix it.
The government asking you to report your neighbor? Seems like a pretty un-slippery slope to me. What could possibly go wrong?
You didnt know that the Tea Party Trump Patriots love fascism and dictatorships? Maybe their love of "president" Putin would have given you a clue.... Let's all start reporting anyone who isn't a Trump supporter. What could go wrong???
Blah blah blah, I addressed this pages ago. The economy serves the people, not the other way around. What matters is the quality of life for citizens.
A good measure of American prosperity has come at the expense of other Americans, and now we're running out of fellow Americans to defraud and exploit. That is it.
It explains a lot. We have cheaper food and cheaper clothing because we allow textiles to be shipped in from overseas and migrant labor to come in and work for pennies. We have cheap disposable electronics because all that manufacturing was sent to East Asia. Eliminating those kinds of jobs put us on the education and two earner household treadmills. The education becomes necessary because wages for blue collar work have stagnated and the jobs have declined per capita.
Having decimated working class jobs, we've moved on to leveraging wages down through corporate consolidation, which reduces job security and makes it more difficult for labor to negotiate for better pay (if you work in any job where there are 50 people doing roughly the same thing, you are easily replaceable). We have what are essentially sweathouses of programmers and lawyers getting paid far below their industry medians. All the money that would ordinarily go to these people gets captured at the top. It's the logic of mass business, which is why I so strongly advocate breakups to restore balance (and we'll have to get used to not throwing so much stuff away).
The American Way has become scrabbling atop a human pyramid of other Americans, and if you can make it to the top you're fine. If you can't--and that's a larger and larger percentage of Americans now--you're doomed to life as a permanently indebted serf.
Your neighbors, in short, are conforming to the rules of a system that rewards complete selfishness, no doubt while telling themselves that "anyone" can do this (never underestimate someone's tendency to assume that he has come out ahead due to his own hard work and talent rather than chance). But we're running out of Americans who can say that. So now we have two choices: flail around without understanding the nature of the problem, sinking into much deeper problem, or discover what is wrong and fix it.
You didnt know that the Tea Party Trump Patriots love fascism and dictatorships? Maybe their love of "president" Putin would have given you a clue.... Let's all start reporting anyone who isn't a Trump supporter. What could go wrong???
Enforcing immigration law = fascism. The left really has learned nothing from their epic loss.
Edit: See Afrique, we have common ground after all. Just need to stop throwing the labels around.
Blah blah blah, I addressed this pages ago. The economy serves the people, not the other way around. What matters is the quality of life for citizens.
A good measure of American prosperity has come at the expense of other Americans, and now we're running out of fellow Americans to defraud and exploit. That is it.
It explains a lot. We have cheaper food and cheaper clothing because we allow textiles to be shipped in from overseas and migrant labor to come in and work for pennies. We have cheap disposable electronics because all that manufacturing was sent to East Asia. Eliminating those kinds of jobs put us on the education and two earner household treadmills. The education becomes necessary because wages for blue collar work have stagnated and the jobs have declined per capita.
Having decimated working class jobs, we've moved on to leveraging wages down through corporate consolidation, which reduces job security and makes it more difficult for labor to negotiate for better pay (if you work in any job where there are 50 people doing roughly the same thing, you are easily replaceable). We have what are essentially sweathouses of programmers and lawyers getting paid far below their industry medians. All the money that would ordinarily go to these people gets captured at the top. It's the logic of mass business, which is why I so strongly advocate breakups to restore balance (and we'll have to get used to not throwing so much stuff away).
The American Way has become scrabbling atop a human pyramid of other Americans, and if you can make it to the top you're fine. If you can't--and that's a larger and larger percentage of Americans now--you're doomed to life as a permanently indebted serf.
Your neighbors, in short, are conforming to the rules of a system that rewards complete selfishness, no doubt while telling themselves that "anyone" can do this (never underestimate someone's tendency to assume that he has come out ahead due to his own hard work and talent rather than chance). But we're running out of Americans who can say that. So now we have two choices: flail around without understanding the nature of the problem, sinking into much deeper problem, or discover what is wrong and fix it.
I'm not sure what we're arguing about now. I agree with everything you said above. However earlier you belittled me for insisting it's the "economics" and yet everything you wrote above is about the economics. It's ALL about economics. And that is why the solutions are economic, not political, not emotional. We have laws. Enforce them. Simple. The reason we don't is purely economics. The idea the "economy" is here to serve people does not make sense. The economy serves itself. Good or bad, it's indifferent. The economy is a measure of success or failure. It doesn't serve anyone. We make the economy. All of the systemic issues of looting it and destroying the American dream we've both laid out over time (and you nailed above) are valid and we're equally frustrated and angry about them. We went through that during the election. We meet at the intersection of Sanders and Trump sometimes. lol
Our difference in opinion is you place much more blame on illegal immigration and specifically Mexico, while I think trickle down, two party shenanigans and failed policies created the immigration mess and blaming Mexico just gives a pass to the real culprits...our own broken 2 party system, existing for special interests and corporations at the expense of the middle class. I just don't blame Mexicans so much. I blame Congress...and my fellow Americans for electing it.
Last edited by monstermagnet; 02-25-2017 at 05:16 PM..
Did I mention race? No.
Did I mention ethnicity? No.
Did I pose a question regarding if people who are citizens or legal aliens live in overcrowded homes? Yes.
Do citizens and legal aliens live in overcrowded homes? Yes, some do. Race and ethnicity is irrelevant.
Do illegally subdivided rentals pose risk to the lives of firefighters and first responders? Yes.
Moving forward, do illegally subdivided rentals pose risk to the people (legal or illegal) who live there? Yes.
So if I call the town to report that a home is illegally subdivided, leading to potentially deadly conditions and in direct violation of the building codes, please tell me how that makes me prejudiced or gives you the right to suggest I am profiling?
Two things: My comments were directed at you but were referring to posts made by peconic or whatever her name is. Secondly, I said if you call to report illegal rentals, that's fine... as long as you were calling on everybody. If you were only calling on mexican immigrants then defending it by saying they were living in illegal rentals then yes you're a prejudice. Probably racist. But only you would know.
130 years ago, people entering USA had to have money in their pockets, be disease free, and did not receive food stamps, housing, medical, etc. 130 years ago, immigrants had to learn English to succeed and made strides to improve their place in life, despite sentiment of the era against groups. They weren't a drain on society and did not expect the US to give in to their demands. Immigrants were responsible for themselves.
Wrong. They had to claim they did not have tuberculosis and for part of the time not be Chinese and they were free to go wherever they wanted. There was nobody at Ellis Island counting their money or giving literacy tests.
130 years ago, people entering USA had to have money in their pockets, be disease free, and did not receive food stamps, housing, medical, etc. 130 years ago, immigrants had to learn English to succeed and made strides to improve their place in life, despite sentiment of the era against groups. They weren't a drain on society and did not expect the US to give in to their demands. Immigrants were responsible for themselves.
This is a bit of a romanticized version. Plenty of gangs, criminals, diseased came through. Assimilation came slowly over generations. Most withdrew to their own and got assistance from religious groups, civic groups from their homeland or politicians looking for constituents (Tammany in NY a great example). Not much different from now. No one had to "learn english" to work in city factories and sweatshops...just like now. Took a few generations of public schools for that to happen. Just like now SOME are a drain on society, many are not. Some are on the dole. Many responsible for themselves (and their families). Both getting the shaft now either way. Is that beneficial? Knee jerk political solutions are almost always shortsighted and fail. They just happen to be an easy sell to angry, frightened sheep.
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