Stop letting your kids drive fast cars (Lima: store, statistics)

[hotkarl]

There is definitely a stigma attatched to US cars as far as quality and dependability.
They are just as good these days, and in some cases, better than foreign cars.
People have been brainwashed into believing that American cars are crap.
Total BS.

I was in the autobody/mechanic industry my entire life up until a few years ago, and aside from a few bad years/models, American cars are made just as well as foreign cars. They had no choice but to step up the quality in order to compete with the foreign stuff.

[djdairyp]

Originally Posted by Egobop

I just want to make a few points here.

I have stated that my Excursion has a diesel engine and that it averages 24 miles per gallon consistently. This should end the fuel consumption debate. I owned a 1994 Plymouth Voyager mini van with a six cylinder gasoline engine and I averaged around 16 miles per gallon.

I also mentioned that I tow with my trailer. I have a 24 foot equipment trailer that weighs 2,500 pounds. I have added to that a large steel plate that I mounted a winch to which I estimate adds at least 500 pounds to the trailer weight. I often trailer old cars on it which adds at least another 2,500 pounds. My truck handles this with no problems. I simply would not be able to do this with a smaller vehicle so I actually use my truck for reasons other than just driving my family around or as a status symbol.

I have had a tire blow out on the Long Island Expressway with my Excursion. I was able to keep control of the truck and get to the side of the road without incident. I was traveling at the speed limit when this happened. If I was traveling much faster I perhaps would not have been able to keep control of the vehicle. In instances such as these I do believe that following the rules of the road make my truck safer than if I did not.

If you look at the statistics of SUVs and pick up trucks that have accidents with fatalities; the majority of those fatalities result from one vehicle accidents which shows me that the way people drive these vehicles has a lot to do with the fatality rate. I rate my truck in the classification as the heavy duty pick up trucks due to the fact that it is characteristically more like them than like a smaller SUV. It is built on the same chassis design as the F250 and F350 and is of similar weight.

There is something else that you should keep in mind. There are many people whom modify their trucks. They have no statistics on how many trucks that flipped had modifications made. Any body lift kit added to these trucks raises the center of gravity more than it already is and will obviously make it flip over easier. The owner's manual for my truck even states that if you buy taller tires than stock you raise the center of gravity.

Of course there is a better chance of my truck flipping than there is of a car flipping. At the same time, in an accident where my truck will not flip, the truck does still have crumple zones such as passenger cars do in order to absorb energy from an impact. Also, if you look at statistics the majority of accidents involving pick ups and SUVs do not result in the vehicle flipping. They flip more than cars do but the majority of accidents involving them do not involve a roll over.

I guess the point I am trying to make to you is the fact that a larger vehicle may not be safer for drivers in an accident than a car weighing less but there is something to be said about the way people drive these larger vehicles. Just the fact that the majority of fatalities from these vehicles occur with only that vehicle having an accident with no other vehicle shows that those people are not driving them properly.

You talk too much about your personal conditions. Your personal experiences are irrelevant, anyone can own a large vehicle and can be a danger on a roadway. Even if you think you are a great driver and can control your vehicle, there are simply some things that can happen you can't foresee and you could find yourself out of control. You could be passing a construction vehicle and a steel pylon rolls of it hits your truck and sends you careening over the median into oncoming traffic as a 10000 pound bomb, some circumstances cant be controlled.

You have diesel, most do not, 1 person does not matter, its cumulative that counts, and the large vehicle will still be a more raw material draw in construction compared to smaller ones. Even still, if we are going to talk diesel its still a loosing argument because for one it still wont meet the new government requirements and also if we want to make comparisons we should compare apples to apples ... lets say all vehicles become diesel, now the excursion is still a resource hog comparatively to a 50 mpg smaller diesel vehicle and is a drain.

Also, I am not talking about safety of the driver in the larger vehicle, and how they fare with crumple zones and accidents and such, I am talking about how these vehicles impact other drivers in vehicle to vehicle collisions and people are 3x more likely to be seriously injured when a large vehicle meets a small vehicle, so again this is why the roads are more safe without these large vehicles.

[djdairyp]

Originally Posted by hotkarl

There is definitely a stigma attatched to US cars as far as quality and dependability.
They are just as good these days, and in some cases, better than foreign cars.
People have been brainwashed into believing that American cars are crap.
Total BS.

I was in the autobody/mechanic industry my entire life up until a few years ago, and aside from a few bad years/models, American cars are made just as well as foreign cars. They had no choice but to step up the quality in order to compete with the foreign stuff.

how do you refute the statistics of consumer reports then???

[hotkarl]

I ignore Consumer Reports. They are about as knowledgable and trustworthy as the Fox news channel. I have indepth first hand experience as a mechanic for the better part of 20 or so years.

[djdairyp]

Originally Posted by hotkarl

I ignore Consumer Reports. They are about as knowledgable and trustworthy as the Fox news channel. I have indepth first hand experience as a mechanic for the better part of 20 or so years.

You knowledge is certainly more than many and your experience does qualify you, however, it is seemingly much more subjective than a statistical analysis of reported problems that is done over a large data-set by consumer reports. Maybe some recommendations and suggestions of what consumers thinks is good can be debunked, but their reliability ratings are based on actual repair records. In the early years, most cars seem to be similar but a few years in and the American cars appear to have significantly more problems. Are they lying?

[Egobop]

Originally Posted by djdairyp

You talk too much about your personal conditions. Your personal experiences are irrelevant, anyone can own a large vehicle and can be a danger on a roadway. Even if you think you are a great driver and can control your vehicle, there are simply some things that can happen you can't foresee and you could find yourself out of control. You could be passing a construction vehicle and a steel pylon rolls of it hits your truck and sends you careening over the median into oncoming traffic as a 10000 pound bomb, some circumstances cant be controlled.

You have diesel, most do not, 1 person does not matter, its cumulative that counts, and the large vehicle will still be a more raw material draw in construction compared to smaller ones. Even still, if we are going to talk diesel its still a loosing argument because for one it still wont meet the new government requirements and also if we want to make comparisons we should compare apples to apples ... lets say all vehicles become diesel, now the excursion is still a resource hog comparatively to a 50 mpg smaller diesel vehicle and is a drain.

Also, I am not talking about safety of the driver in the larger vehicle, and how they fare with crumple zones and accidents and such, I am talking about how these vehicles impact other drivers in vehicle to vehicle collisions and people are 3x more likely to be seriously injured when a large vehicle meets a small vehicle, so again this is why the roads are more safe without these large vehicles.

A vehicle that has a collision with my Excursion obviously has crumple zones. My Excursion does as well. Both vehicles will still be absorbing impact is my point. Of course a heavier vehicle can cause more damage. I am not disputing that point.

The point I am disputing is the fact that you make it seem as though a collision with my Excursion is like colliding with a Mack truck. It is not. My truck weighs between 3,000 to 3,500 pounds more than the average passenger vehicle. I do not see that weight difference being AS dangerous as you seem to be trying to make it sound.

I also made the point as to how the majority of fatalities in heavy duty pick ups involve only that vehicle and not others. Do you agree with the fact that the way people drive these vehicles has some bearing on how safe or unsafe the vehicle is?

The hypothetical situations you speak of can cause serious injury or death no matter what vehicle these situations happen with.

My truck will not be banned from the roads no matter what kind of emissions regulations they come up with. My truck already exists and will always have to meet the requirements for my truck when it was built.

The newer heavy duty diesel trucks since 2008 meet stricter emissions requirements than mine does as well. No matter what they make the requirements, cars and trucks will be meeting those requirements.

[djdairyp]

Originally Posted by Egobop

A vehicle that has a collision with my Excursion obviously has crumple zones. My Excursion does as well. Both vehicles will still be absorbing impact is my point. Of course a heavier vehicle can cause more damage. I am not disputing that point.

The point I am disputing is the fact that you make it seem as though a collision with my Excursion is like colliding with a Mack truck. It is not. My truck weighs between 3,000 to 3,500 pounds more than the average passenger vehicle. I do not see that weight difference being AS dangerous as you seem to be trying to make it sound.

I also made the point as to how the majority of fatalities in heavy duty pick ups involve only that vehicle and not others. Do you agree with the fact that the way people drive these vehicles has some bearing on how safe or unsafe the vehicle is?

The hypothetical situations you speak of can cause serious injury or death no matter what vehicle these situations happen with.

My truck will not be banned from the roads no matter what kind of emissions regulations they come up with. My truck already exists and will always have to meet the requirements for my truck when it was built.

The newer heavy duty diesel trucks since 2008 meet stricter emissions requirements than mine does as well. No matter what they make the requirements, cars and trucks will be meeting those requirements.

No one cares about 'your' truck I don't know why you keep talking about it and it only makes it seem like you have a bias in the discussion by constantly referring the the specifics of your situation and vehicle. We are talking in general terms here about larger vehicles in general and the future of how things will be and should be.

How people drive their vehicles is a moot point as there is no control over that in given isolated incidents. That alone is reason their should be more restrictions.

You asked how are the roads less safe with the larger vehicle on it. I have demonstrated that and the less there are the better off it is for everyone.

I am not embellishing on the added safety risk of the weight difference, it is well substantiated in many reports that in vehicle to vehicle collision the lighter car is at a much greater risk, I probably have not embellished on this enough as it is very significant.

As I have said before, the roads and the planet for that matter would be much better off with reductions and discouragement of driving large vehicles.

[LIMA]

Originally Posted by djdairyp

The fact that you can't understand that the road is less safe with large vehicles on it defies all logic and is baffling.

You scare me that you can't seem to see there can be avoidance of such issues, leading me to believe that your fear is because you shouldn't be driving.

For some reason you think that if you are a safe driver you are immune to accidents.

Unless it fell from the sky, or came from a blind intersection while i had the right of way, yes i am immune.

Your tire could fall off (sounds ridiculous, I know someone it happened to),

Would not cause me to kill myself of anyone else, i am a trained driver and ready for anything at any moment, i do not drive a vehicle and for a moment believe i am sitting at a table of leisure to forget what i am to be doing. (you speak as 1 of these 100's of thousands of people)

a drunk driver could careen over the median and smash into you,

Could just come across like the truck on the LIE that killed my friends wife, because there was no median to keep it on that side...

I have had this similar type of run in with a drunk driver 3 times in my life, twice i turned around and took there keys, would you like them?

The last one i followed, while on the phone with the police, and every vehicle i come upon to this day i drop a dime and follow.

NEVER hit one, because when you are driving you are to anticipate many things, look ahead, behind even watch around, scanning if you would.
I have had numerous run ins with drunk drivers, many many different senarios

Also i had run ins with them head on in low lit situations, not our parkways here where you can drive them with no lights on at all if need be...
Which is why people who drive for a living need to take it very seriously.... Have you ever seen the video of the accident with the limo and p/u that killed that little girl katie (limos are very heavy).

That never should have happened.

all sorts of crazy unavoidable things can happen and when accidents in such cases happen, larger vehicles have much larger impacts on smaller vehicles. If all vehicles were restrained to similar weight restrictions it would benefit the safety of all. I am not saying ban these vehicles, but the less of these vehicles on the road, the safer everyone else is and its a shared roadway.

So then all comm trucks should be gone then...

To benefit the safety of all , YOU ALL, you need to learn to drive.

You are driving not having a tea and crumpet party from point a to b, you are driving, so while you are driving do only that...

Originally Posted by djdairyp

how do you refute the statistics of consumer reports then???

By showing you 4 not 1, 4 American vehicles 3 of which are older then 99.9% of any import you can find and those 3 all have 300k plus miles and another with 374k miles and only 10 years old...

The newer of the 4 has also had 7 different drivers, an American vehicle with 7 different types of driving use and over 374k miles...
A import couldn't last half that time with just me

I also happen to own my business, which is primarily automotive related, and you need to look around, the economy here in the united states is automotive fueled...the majority of metal, plastics, elec, comp is all automotive use.

Govt forcing them to do things other companies do not have to meet is 1 problem, the added tax on tax on top of tax is the other problem.
The money that was lent was mainly for taxes, and now with the loss of another American car company so goes with it the money for the US govt



When you are out driving pay attention to your commutes and give us a number of 10 yr old plus imports you see on the road and then give us the numbers you see of American vehicles in that same age group...

People that make wild insane claims of imports being better are wrong.

Also take how many excursions you come across and how many p/u heavier then 5000 lbs, they would need to be dually long bed crew cabs preferably with diesel to be beyond 5000 lbs..

Again though as i keep stating the obvious the problem isn't weight it is the driver...

[djdairyp]

Originally Posted by LIMA

You scare me that you can't seem to see there can be avoidance of such issues, leading me to believe that your fear is because you shouldn't be driving.

As other posters have indicated, your posts are nearly impossibly to read and make little sense.

You could be sitting at a red light between two cars and be plowed into by an out of control driver, good luck with that one.

You have blinders on and think your personal experiences can somehow be extrapolated to the masses. You obviously have some strange personal obsession with this and refuse to accept logic and statistics. I personally care little about this thread anyhow and I have no further interest in dealing with ignorance.

[LIMA]

The ignorance is all you....the blinders are what you are wearing....Weight of a vehicle is evil and no one should have one.
All you see is the weight and fail to see the real problem...and come up with a quick non thought out solution, that is not the problem...Like many people who hold elected positions.

If i was between 2 cars at a light and someone was flying up from behind, or side or from the front, you being one of the cars on either side would be saying, wow that guy went thru the light.

You do not pay attention when driving and clearly show it in your posts..
It is ok though you are part of the majority, i am part of the few. I want to change that though, not regulate/stop/control vehicle weights.

I have been in more situations then you could use as a senario, some purposely, some by accident.


You have trouble with my posts only because you don't realize they are answering your multiple posts, i get tired of all the umpteen quotes.