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How many men even WANT to work in a daycare? It's a low paying and, often, thankless job. If men go into the education field, it is usually only at the high school or college level. Also, they usually try to get into administration as quickly as possible. Dealing with young children is seen as a women's job. Again, things are changing slowly (especially in European countries) but traditional roles/expectations are hard to shake.
I do think you do have more men going into even elementary education (still mostly women) because while you won't get rich working with kids, honestly it pays much better than a huge percentage of private sector jobs that pay just above the minimum wage with no benefits. Traditionally female jobs like teaching and nursing have more men going into them, particularly with manufacturing jobs no longer being an option as far as going into the middle class. Better doing a woman's job that being the stock boy at the retail store, or some manual labor job that will leave you cripple by age 50 or in some cases DEAD. And yes many men who do those jobs when they get to that state for obvious reasons regret having ever gone that route.
So you ignore all the women who say they have been discriminated against blatantly in male dominated fields, because it doesn't fit what you want to hear? As for male run daycares, historically men weren't banned from certain fields or even universities (women could not go to top universities until the 70s, or in the case of Columbia College until 1983).
As for the investment banking lawsuit, the women involved said they were NEVER given large accounts. That's why they sued. And please name me on major bank that has a woman CEO. And this isn't because no women ever work in the field.
NYtoDC is one woman who cannot speak for the experiences of all women.
And yes there are businessmen who would blatantly hire a man over a more qualified woman. I am not saying all businessmen think this way but there are those who certainly do. To claim that all gender discrimination is gone in 2016 is absolutely ridiculous.
As for those people who feel uncomfortable about not being in places where they are not substantially represented, going abroad doesn't necessarily change things. I'm Black. There are countries I could go to with large numbers of Blacks, or within other countries I could find substantial Black communities. Just because someone has been abroad does not necessarily change how they feel about being in places where there are no other people. Just because you have been abroad does not mean you speak for all Americans who have been abroad, or that they have experiences or feelings like yours.
The article goes on to say that the median income of women that are the primary breadwinner is $80,000. I hardly see this as being held back. Once this generation gets control from the baby boomers, you'll see the demographics reflect that. Not every company can have a young guy like Mark Zuckerberg as CEO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYtoDC
How many men even WANT to work in a daycare? It's a low paying and, often, thankless job. If men go into the education field, it is usually only at the high school or college level. Also, they usually try to get into administration as quickly as possible. Dealing with young children is seen as a women's job. Again, things are changing slowly (especially in European countries) but traditional roles/expectations are hard to shake.
You essentially made my point. Men don't want to work in daycare. Women don't want to work in the fields that are male dominated. As I said, we can't find women to work in outside sales in my company because they refuse to work the long hours without OT pay, be on the road for weeks if not months at a time (I spent 45 days in a row last year), having to take out clients on weeknights to dinner, and golfing on the weekend with clients or co-workers. Go read my links above. Women are DOMINATING college education and are becoming primary breadwinners in married couples at record numbers. You have a woman CEO at Pepsico, she's even a minority. Oprah is one of the most powerful people in entertainment. The CEO of Yahoo is a woman. Hell, women host Sportscenter these days. The highest paid MMA fighter for the last few years was Ronda Rousey. She made more money than any other MMA fighter in the world. Reddit's CEO was a woman until recently. Clearly women are succeeding in the workplace in 2016.
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Originally Posted by NYtoDC
Agreed. You have to be tough to push through and deal with the "good ol'boys club."
What employee doesn't have to do this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
I do think you do have more men going into even elementary education (still mostly women) because while you won't get rich working with kids, honestly it pays much better than a huge percentage of private sector jobs that pay just above the minimum wage with no benefits. Traditionally female jobs like teaching and nursing have more men going into them, particularly with manufacturing jobs no longer being an option as far as going into the middle class. Better doing a woman's job that being the stock boy at the retail store, or some manual labor job that will leave you cripple by age 50 or in some cases DEAD. And yes many men who do those jobs when they get to that state for obvious reasons regret having ever gone that route.
So Japanese automotive companies that manufacture cars and car parts in the US are no longer options? Just LOLOLOLOL
The article goes on to say that the median income of women that are the primary breadwinner is $80,000. I hardly see this as being held back. Once this generation gets control from the baby boomers, you'll see the demographics reflect that. Not every company can have a young guy like Mark Zuckerberg as CEO.
You essentially made my point. Men don't want to work in daycare. Women don't want to work in the fields that are male dominated. As I said, we can't find women to work in outside sales in my company because they refuse to work the long hours without OT pay, be on the road for weeks if not months at a time (I spent 45 days in a row last year), having to take out clients on weeknights to dinner, and golfing on the weekend with clients or co-workers. Go read my links above. Women are DOMINATING college education and are becoming primary breadwinners in married couples at record numbers. You have a woman CEO at Pepsico, she's even a minority. Oprah is one of the most powerful people in entertainment. The CEO of Yahoo is a woman. Hell, women host Sportscenter these days. The highest paid MMA fighter for the last few years was Ronda Rousey. She made more money than any other MMA fighter in the world. Reddit's CEO was a woman until recently. Clearly women are succeeding in the workplace in 2016.
What employee doesn't have to do this?
So Japanese automotive companies that manufacture cars and car parts in the US are no longer options? Just LOLOLOLOL
Manufacturing jobs have substantially shrank as a percentage of overall employment to
The point both Trump and Sanders rode that wave of discontent.
I think women know more about what they experience than a man who wants to deny gender based discrimination.
I do think you do have more men going into even elementary education (still mostly women) because while you won't get rich working with kids, honestly it pays much better than a huge percentage of private sector jobs that pay just above the minimum wage with no benefits. Traditionally female jobs like teaching and nursing have more men going into them, particularly with manufacturing jobs no longer being an option as far as going into the middle class. Better doing a woman's job that being the stock boy at the retail store, or some manual labor job that will leave you cripple by age 50 or in some cases DEAD. And yes many men who do those jobs when they get to that state for obvious reasons regret having ever gone that route.
Very true. It is getting tough out here in a variety of industries. That is why I obtained my teaching degree/credentials first. I knew that it was something I could always go back to if my other endeavors don't work out they way I hope. I'm sure men who pursue a job in the educational sector are drawn to the stability of teaching as well. I don't think I've ever seen a man take care of toddlers though. It is EXTREMELY rare for a man to have the patience to deal with multiple young children at the same time. I did see one AA male elementary teacher at a charter school I taught at in NYC and he did very well with the children. The class was a sixth grade class. He was very stern and the children were more responsive to him than they were to many of the female teachers. They probably looked at him like a father figure. Nursing definitely seems to be the more popular field for men amongst the two career options.
The article goes on to say that the median income of women that are the primary breadwinner is $80,000. I hardly see this as being held back. Once this generation gets control from the baby boomers, you'll see the demographics reflect that. Not every company can have a young guy like Mark Zuckerberg as CEO.
You essentially made my point. Men don't want to work in daycare. Women don't want to work in the fields that are male dominated. As I said, we can't find women to work in outside sales in my company because they refuse to work the long hours without OT pay, be on the road for weeks if not months at a time (I spent 45 days in a row last year), having to take out clients on weeknights to dinner, and golfing on the weekend with clients or co-workers. Go read my links above. Women are DOMINATING college education and are becoming primary breadwinners in married couples at record numbers. You have a woman CEO at Pepsico, she's even a minority. Oprah is one of the most powerful people in entertainment. The CEO of Yahoo is a woman. Hell, women host Sportscenter these days. The highest paid MMA fighter for the last few years was Ronda Rousey. She made more money than any other MMA fighter in the world. Reddit's CEO was a woman until recently. Clearly women are succeeding in the workplace in 2016.
What employee doesn't have to do this?
So Japanese automotive companies that manufacture cars and car parts in the US are no longer options? Just LOLOLOLOL
I think more women would try their hands at male-oriented professions if there weren't:
1) societal stigmas attached
2) the field was more woman-friendly (e.g. Time off for female health related issues and maternity leave).
Also women with families are unable to work long hours or go on the road unless they have a nanny or a strung support system. That is usually only the case with wealthy women (who, in most cases, wouldn't need to work at all).
I did know one female carpenter (a friend of a friend) and she reported that she was give a hard time on job sites. I also saw an article in a Philly newspaper a few years ago while I was living there about how low income women completed a program where they could learn a skilled trade but the majority-male unions blocked them from actually obtaining work. They had to end up suing the unions in order to get work. Discrimination and misogyny is all too real. Males may not see it because a male is only going to truly be able to see things from a male-oriented lens and a male perspective. Women are getting degrees but how many of them are earning the same salary as their male counterparts for the same job role? There wouldn't be so many protests and articles written about how women earn $0.70 to every $1.00 a male earns if it was not true.
Manufacturing jobs have substantially shrank as a percentage of overall employment to
The point both Trump and Sanders rode that wave of discontent.
I think women know more about what they experience than a man who wants to deny gender based discrimination.
They shrank, but there are still places where the work is available. Every time I visit an automotive plant I see signs hiring and new workers being brought in for orientation (I visit plants weekly to monthly depending on the season). In fact, I know a major manufacturer that has problems retaining recent college grads. There is also plenty of welding work out there (not sure if you count that as manufacturing). There are jobs that are leaving the country (Mexico is booming right now), but that is an economic/political issue.
I would think someone that plans on becoming a teacher would know better than to rely solely on anecdotal evidence when confronted with data.
I think more women would try their hands at male-oriented professions if there weren't:
1) societal stigmas attached
2) the field was more woman-friendly (e.g. Time off for female health related issues and maternity leave).
Also women with families are unable to work long hours or go on the road unless they have a nanny or a strung support system. That is usually only the case with wealthy women (who, in most cases, wouldn't need to work at all).
I did know one female carpenter (a friend of a friend) and she reported that she was give a hard time on job sites. I also saw an article in a Philly newspaper a few years ago while I was living there about how low income women completed a program where they could learn a skilled trade but the majority-male unions blocked them from actually obtaining work. They had to end up suing the unions in order to get work. Discrimination and misogyny is all too real. Males may not see it because a male is only going to truly be able to see things from a male-oriented lens and a male perspective. Women are getting degrees but how many of them are earning the same salary as their male counterparts for the same job role? There wouldn't be so many protests and articles written about how women earn $0.70 to every $1.00 a male earns if it was not true.
I couldn't care less about their reasons for not trying to be honest with you. Your first reason makes me laugh as I am in sales, which has some pretty negative stereotypes. Personally, I don't care as I make more than those that look down on us because they have some complex. Regarding your second reason: MOST people don't get time off for health issues unless they take a sick day and after that they might have that hurt them come performance review time. As for maternity leave, I have never worked for a company that did not have a maternity leave policy. Maybe there is one out there, but I have not heard of it. I welcome anyone from the board to chime in. You cited tech as being male dominated, yet they definitely have maternity leave and recently started considering paternity leave: Facebook Paid Parental Leave: What About Other Companies?
I'm guessing you mean they aren't offered paid leave with in that case I have no sympathy for any employee on that matter be they male or female.
Women with families not being able to work long hours or go on the road is completely their fault. It's not like women HAVE to have children. Switch the word women with men in that sentence and see how absurd that sounds.
Being given a hard time happens to many. I get crap about being a city boy (yes, by the guys that work at my warehouse), not looking rugged enough (babyface), being from California, American, etc. I just deal with it and count the $$$. I'd love a link to that article and to get the union's side of the story. Unions block everybody not in the union from working, that's how they keep their jobs and pay. Ask anyone that's tried to be a longshoreman in the LA Harbor area how hard it is to get a job on the docks because you have to have a connection in the union to get in. Even if the discrimination were real, these women have a trade and there is a skilled workers shortage. I left my home state specifically because there was a shortage of people with my skill set in my industry with $900 in the bank, a flight ticket, and 2 suitcases.
Hence, if you work more, you have more money no big surprise there.
If that myth were true, why wouldn't a businessman hire only women? He'd be saving 33 cents per dollar, per hour. Supposedly businessmen and corporations only care about money and the bottomline, so why have they not outsourced all of their jobs currently occupied by men to women? I would think any greedy businessman would do this in a heartbeat.
I do want to make clear that I am definitely NOT discounting experiences of women from the past. I just don't believe this holds true in 2016 to the degree that we're told it does, but I will not deny that it happened previously. I feel like there are enough options for this to be a moot point.
Last edited by peter_midnight; 05-09-2016 at 07:46 PM..
I couldn't care less about their reasons for not trying to be honest with you. Your first reason makes me laugh as I am in sales, which has some pretty negative stereotypes. Personally, I don't care as I make more than those that look down on us because they have some complex. Regarding your second reason: MOST people don't get time off for health issues unless they take a sick day and after that they might have that hurt them come performance review time. As for maternity leave, I have never worked for a company that did not have a maternity leave policy. Maybe there is one out there, but I have not heard of it. I welcome anyone from the board to chime in. You cited tech as being male dominated, yet they definitely have maternity leave and recently started considering paternity leave: Facebook Paid Parental Leave: What About Other Companies?
I'm guessing you mean they aren't offered paid leave with in that case I have no sympathy for any employee on that matter be they male or female.
Women with families not being able to work long hours or go on the road is completely their fault. It's not like women HAVE to have children. Switch the word women with men in that sentence and see how absurd that sounds.
Being given a hard time happens to many. I get crap about being a city boy (yes, by the guys that work at my warehouse), not looking rugged enough (babyface), being from California, American, etc. I just deal with it and count the $$$. I'd love a link to that article and to get the union's side of the story. Unions block everybody not in the union from working, that's how they keep their jobs and pay. Ask anyone that's tried to be a longshoreman in the LA Harbor area how hard it is to get a job on the docks because you have to have a connection in the union to get in. Even if the discrimination were real, these women have a trade and there is a skilled workers shortage. I left my home state specifically because there was a shortage of people with my skill set in my industry with $900 in the bank, a flight ticket, and 2 suitcases.
Hence, if you work more, you have more money no big surprise there.
If that myth were true, why wouldn't a businessman hire only women? He'd be saving 33 cents per dollar, per hour. Supposedly businessmen and corporations only care about money and the bottomline, so why have they not outsourced all of their jobs currently occupied by men to women? I would think any greedy businessman would do this in a heartbeat.
I do want to make clear that I am definitely NOT discounting experiences of women from the past. I just don't believe this holds true in 2016 to the degree that we're told it does, but I will not deny that it happened previously. I feel like there are enough options for this to be a moot point.
So you're saying that you have no sympathy for your own mother and/or sisters? I'm not sure how you don't understand the extra obligations of females outside of work. Firstly, women deal with different health issues than men do. Secondly, if the woman is a mother, she works a second job FOR FREE which is taking care of children, cooking meals, doing housework, educating said children, taking care of aging parents, etc. the list goes on and on. You have to understand that the roles of a male and female are quite different. Males very rarely take on the responsibilities of a woman in the home and also do not suffer from the same issues that women have. Men usually work and that is it. A woman is lucky if her male partner takes on half of the household chores in addition to working a 9 to 5 job. Most modern women, despite their extra duties, still manage to have full time jobs and work just as hard as males at their job. Also, you have to factor in that the family duties outside of the workplace leave it impossible for most women to work extra hours. Your response sounds very misogynistic and lacking in empathy. Don't let modern feminism fool you. A woman can't have it all. And most women are not willing to give up a family life for a few extra dollars. Why should anyone work a 60-80 hour workweek anyway? There needs to be more balance between home life and work life for both men and women (especially if they have children so that the children are raised properly). I personally feel that mothers with children should be at home with their children until they are old enough to go off to school anyways. Children without proper parental guidance end up dysfunctional and are often a menace to society.
There are plenty of majority Black cities and counties with low crime and high incomes. Those cities you describe are that way because of low income and unemployment.
In the minds of white people, anything black is negative.
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