homeless people making the sidewalk their home? (Los Angeles, Beverly Hills: to live, legal)

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by elhelmete

Yeah no kidding. The study was very clear about methodology and the comparison of proportions, not raw numbers. That said...the study IS 17 years old and the data pulls often from 1990 Census numbers. I'd tend to believe that there have been material changes since the mid 1990s with respect to drugs at the very least.

At least in Sacramento homeless drug addicts (mostly meth users) have largely self segregated from other homeless. They tend to be less visible than 'sidewalk homeless' and alternate homelessness with stays in motels and sofa surfing. They are definitely more likely to be on parole or be involved in criminality than the 'visible homeless'. I would be surprised if the group I am talking about is even included in homeless counts.

It's hard to pigeon hole homeless people. In Reno the group I worked with was trying to find housing for homeless women with children, the women were definitely homeless but you never saw them in the places frequented by the homeless. They were discreet and careful to present an appearance that would not draw attention to themselves, many would spend the day in public parks with their kids and sleep where ever they could find a safe spot. None that I worked with were criminals and we only ran across a few who had drug problems.

[NyWriterdude]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Lol. Anyone reading these posts can see that you don't care about the research, yes. Obvious.

What you should care to understand at the very least, however, is the concept of proportionality. The research (that you don't care about) is not based on total crimes and total populations. It's proportional. It is the "rate" of crime, proportionately, among population groups.

I know what the concept of proportionality is, thank you.

Again I don't care about the "research".

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by majoun

If they know citizens are armed they will be on their best behavior and not only will they not commit crimes but they will be respectful and know their place.

Oh stop it. Really. The homeless that you are talking about don't have any "best behavior", nor are homeless schizophrenics, and bi-polars, and severely depressed in the slightest bit concerned with respecting you, whether you are armed or not. They have nothing left to lose, even if they are vaguely self-aware. Pretty typically not afraid of your guns either. They live with all kinds of mortal threats and issues 24/7.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by majoun

If they know citizens are armed they will be on their best behavior and not only will they not commit crimes but they will be respectful and know their place.

I don't agree, the homeless who act irrationally are usually mentally ill or suffering from acute alcohol intoxication, you could stick a gun in their mouth and they will not suddenly become respectful and know their place.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Veronicka

I had a friend who was homeless and an alcoholic. He would get arrested for drunk in public and then be put on non-supervised probation. The condition of his probation was that he couldn't drink. Well he was homeless and an extreme alcoholic and the only way to tolerate that is to drink. He would get picked up and charged and his probation would be extended. He only had to be near alcohol for that to count as an infraction. It was a cycle and he was arrested many times or cited. He wasn't a thief unless he had no choice but to shoplift. He wasn't a criminal in other ways except for the violence. He wouldn't be violent to a civilian, only within his culture.

Living on the streets requires self-defense and the ability to fight. They fight. It is a different culture.

He would go to jail and try to make a plan to get off the streets but no place would take him because he had a history of violence. He had no place to go but back on the streets. It is impossible to get sober when you are an alcoholic and forced to live like that. That is the only way to tolerate the conditions. He had issues, obviously and mental illness. He couldn't function as a regular person unless he had a lot of help. The help said 'no, you are violent' and that was the end of that.

These people can't be compared to functional people who can just get a job. Some can find help and a way out, but mostly they can't cope and are unable to conform. That is the real problem. How does one get real help and learn how to function in a completely different way? I only knew this one guy and he was not a drug user. Drug users have a different set of problems and are probably more prone to criminal behavior because of the need to feed their habit and the violent side effects. I only assume this is so. These people are not gang members and organized. Their crimes are not gang related and that is a different story. This is a generalization based on my observations where I am. I see a lot of homelessness and mostly they are just trying to make it through another day.

As a single woman, I do not like being approached and asked for spare change. Leave me alone, and do not approach me.

Great post, you described the reality of the situation very well.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by NyWriterdude

I know what the concept of proportionality is, thank you.

Again I don't care about the "research".

No. You apparently do not know what proportionality is at all. You just proved that by writing what you did about the homeless population being smaller therefore has a lower number of violent crimes associated. That is a direct and total refutation of any grasp of proportionality.

And lmao again about you not caring about the research. Too funny. So, what DO you care about? Just stories about burger snatchings as evidence of the correctness of your positions?

[majoun]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Oh stop it. Really. The homeless that you are talking about don't have any "best behavior", nor are homeless schizophrenics, and bi-polars, and severely depressed in the slightest bit concerned with respecting you, whether you are armed or not. They have nothing left to lose, even if they are vaguely self-aware. Pretty typically not afraid of your guns either. They live with all kinds of mortal threats and issues 24/7.

People tend to refrain from behaviors if there is a greater likelihood of them losing their lives from said behaviors.

Concealed carry has a documented record of reducing crimes, as does "stand your ground". Los Angeles needs both.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by majoun

People tend to refrain from behaviors if there is a greater likelihood of them losing their lives from said behaviors.

Concealed carry has a documented record of reducing crimes, as does "stand your ground". Los Angeles needs both.

BS. Pure and simple nonsense. You just had it explained in the simplest of terms twice. Those who are the visible homeless you refer to are barely aware, if at all, of your open carry let alone concealed carry. And they don't fear it any more than all the other threats they live with daily. They're not afraid of much of anything really in their states of illness and intoxication.

[Three Wolves In Snow]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkyPunks

I understand your point, and in general I try to sympathize with the plight of the homeless. But, as a petite woman, when I see a homeless person I see a very real threat of harassment and/or violence. Personal bad experiences with street harassment have taught me to never respond or get near them, and have my phone out and ready to call the police. I'm all for organizations and charities helping the homeless, and I don't think the police or city should be allowed to mistreat them. But at the same time, I myself want to remain as far away from them as possible, and through experience have to admit an ugly truth: a large portion of homeless men are aggressive and dangerous, and if allowing them to live on the street enables then to harass, then that's a privilege they ought to lose.

Just as we shouldn't judge them without knowing the circumstances that led to their homelessness, don't judge those of us who have to consider our own safety first. This entire argument is not black and white, there's countless levels of gray here. Do YOU actually LIVE and WORK in areas where there are many vagrant people, some with proven violent tendencies? Because I do. I know what it's like to fear walking alone, in public, in the middle of the day.

As a petite female myself, I've never had this problem, and I've dealt with a lot of homeless people. You have a stereotype about them based off of what? A homeless person yelling at you one day? What are you basing it on, since you were not forthcoming.

I don't treat them like trash or look down on them. I remember that they are people with feelings, just like me. They are people who were children at one point, with hopes and dreams, just like me. Something went wrong. It is not always drugs and alcohol like so many like to pretend. Often times that drug and/or alcohol use comes AFTER being homeless for so long, NOT before.

People really need to stop saying that they have compassion when it is evident that they have nothing of the sort. Perhaps a few months of having everything taken away from you would help you understand better.

[jm1982]

Originally Posted by majoun

People tend to refrain from behaviors if there is a greater likelihood of them losing their lives from said behaviors.

Concealed carry has a documented record of reducing crimes, as does "stand your ground". Los Angeles needs both.

Problem in L.A is that the city just doesn't do anything. Mayor Yoga pants is out shaking hands with the homeless asking if they've signed up for more tax payer funded services and welfare .

Unfortunately I think people will take matters into their own hands to protect themselves
Because the city too often refuses too .

Homeless should be arrested for crimes , not be coddled .

No the homeless are not all saints , they are not our neighorbors .
Garcetti treats homeless, criminals and illegals better than than tax paying citizens

"Hi, I'm your mayor," a smiling Mayor Eric Garcetti says as he holds out his hand toward a thin, bearded man who goes by the name Derek. After they shake hands, Garcetti settles into a quick line of questioning: Do you have a driver's license? Have you seen your caseworker? Are you on a list for housing?

Surrounded by police officers, outreach workers, Garcetti and his staff, 35-year-old Derek nods his head politely and shows off his license. He then says he has an appointment with a caseworker and promises he'll continue to keep up with his paperwork for social services.

"Good," Garcetti says before embracing Derek. "Your mayor is counting on you."

LA Mayor Eric Garcetti counting on new HOPE program to help the homeless


It's such a f' in contrived politically correct publicity stunt too .

So people can gush .. Wow look how compassionate and caring this Mayor is .
From the security of their Brentwood mansions with ADT armed response security patrolling to make sure none of these homeless actual roam their sacred streets !


That guy probably just stole a kids bike or shot up some heroin after his big encounter with Garcetti