if you could rebuild LA's subway/light rail system from scratch (Los Angeles: transfer to, subsidized)

[Island_OnThe_Land]

Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE

Since we are stuck, I say scrap it or make it pay its own way. I always love these ballot propositions that we vote on with many funding money into systems that the majority of us will never use. We the people have voted yes to transportation porpositions that fund LA area light rail systems and it does nothing for those of us way out here in the sticks so to speak.

Don't forget it was a mid-'90's vote by LA County voters that squashed the extension of the "Subway by the Sea" all the way down Wilshire. That measure (as I recall it) banned all local sales tax from going into subway projects. That killed the subway...as the feds won't pony up money unless their is local money sharing the burden. Granted the opposition of pols like Henry Waxman were additional obstacles; HOWEVER, that vote put the nail in the coffin.

So I agree with you....voters sometimes make dumb decisions...that was a BIG one! Here were are 15 years later and it only costs more to build and funds are more scarce and traffic is worse!!

[Lifeshadower]

Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE

Since we are stuck, I say scrap it or make it pay its own way. I always love these ballot propositions that we vote on with many funding money into systems that the majority of us will never use. We the people have voted yes to transportation porpositions that fund LA area light rail systems and it does nothing for those of us way out here in the sticks so to speak.

I always thought those propositions were only for residents of LA County? If not, sorry about that. At least you guys get the prestige of helping us out

From a person who heavily used the Red Line and (when it opened in 2005) Orange Line a lot prior to going to college and getting a car, I would seriously think about improving bus service first before thinking about more rail plans. One day, I wanted to go to downtown LA from Northridge (which, as far as I know, will never be directly served by rail aside from Metrolink). It took me around 2 hours to do it (as opposed to 30 minutes on the 405-101). I spent maybe around 1 hour and 15 minutes waiting for the bus to get me from my house to the Orange Line, and waiting from the Orange Line back to my house. You can have all this rail, but if its not complemented by a good, or at least adequate bus system, its nearly pointless.

Hypothetically speaking though, I like the Pacific Red Car lines. However, due to increased traffic and usage, I would opt for more light rail/BRT lines throughout the San Fernando Valley and subway lines everywhere else. I like 30/10 plan, but the problem is implementation. Let's see where the 'Subway to the Sea' goes first before talking about more lines.

I don't know how many C-D users have done this, but I've actually been on all the rail lines and ridden it from end to end (at least prior to the new openings). I love the fact LA has a start on something, but now its time to make it whole.

[Island_OnThe_Land]

Originally Posted by Charles

There are shuttle buses that move people to LAX from the green line right before it turns south. (Probably serves less than 1% of LAX users.)

I hear you Charles. That said, the NEED to transfer is part of the problem, as people do NOT want the inconvenience of having to transfer.

Bottom line is the GREEN LINE is a travesty of LA transit planning. The local pols in the So. Bay lobbied to get the train to stop in their cities rather go directly into LAX.

Nothing like politics to get in the way of good planning. Well, as they say, Mussolini got the trains to run on time, but that comes with a price!

If I could re-write history, I'd have the GREEN LINE go DIRECTLY from LAX to Downtown LA with a stop at USC. It would go down the middle of the 105 Freeway as it does now but then jog north near the 110 and go along the existing Blue Line tracks but go underground near USC before making its way into downtown.

[Island_OnThe_Land]

Originally Posted by Lifeshadower

I always thought those propositions were only for residents of LA County? If not, sorry about that. At least you guys get the prestige of helping us out

I don't know how many C-D users have done this, but I've actually been on all the rail lines and ridden it from end to end (at least prior to the new openings). I love the fact LA has a start on something, but now its time to make it whole.

Actually, you are right, the transit funding propositions that fund the MTA ARE voted on by LA County voters ONLY....

Kudos for you for riding the rails and bus system. I've done it too. It really changes your perception of what life can be like in LA with more transit options. We will probably never in our lives see the LA region give up the car as the central focus....HOWEVER, I AGREE it is GOOD NEWS more is being built..in the long run these investments are GOOD for the region.

[BRinSM]

if it were up to me, i would build a "wheel and spoke" system. the majority of the rail lines would be based on a circle line that would more or less follow wilshire, the 405, ventura blvd, and the 101. from this line, other spoke lines would radiate from the circle (ie wilshire to the beach, 405 north and south from south bay to sylmar, ventura blvd to woodland hills, vermont blvd down to the port, and more eastside service. additionally, a few lines (like the santa monica blvd line) would criss-cross through the "circle line".

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Island_OnThe_Land

The local pols in the So. Bay lobbied to get the train to stop in their cities

Out of curiosity, why would South Bay people want a train that heads from their neighborhoods (and those demographics) east along the 105 to Norwalk? In other words, what good does the green line do for South Bay people? Do a lot of South Bay people ride the green line?

[Island_OnThe_Land]

Originally Posted by Charles

Out of curiosity, why would South Bay people want a train that heads from their neighborhoods (and those demographics) east along the 105 to Norwalk? In other words, what good does the green line do for South Bay people? Do a lot of South Bay people ride the green line?

Here's my understanding of it: the Green Line is the "train to nowhere" as why would anyone build a train to Norwalk? No offense to Norwalk.

Bottom line is that when the 105 Freeway was being built the thought was gee we are building from scratch so we have a chance to build a light rail line along this new freeway. And it was only then that the So. Bay officials (e.g., Mayors from Redondo, Torrance, etc) were like, "Hey if you are gonna build that line we'd like to have it come towards us rather than go to LAX."

The MTA Board that oversees the agency is comprised of local elected officials from around the county (at least it was back in the 80's and 90's). So they could twist arms and negotiate for compromises that were NOT necessarily good for the region but were good for local politics. They could say, "Hey I got the Green Line to come to our city."

[DarkWolf]

This is just a start , but LA is so far behind compared to other cities that have rebuilt there systems , like Dallas or Portland But LA is becoming a model for the nation, for future systems. LA has also become the prime example, that adding more lanes doesn't = less congestion

[uptown_urbanist]

I certainly think LA is behind when compared to places like DC or NYC, but Dallas? Even Portland? I'd strongly disagree with LA is "far behind," either of those cities.

LA looks bad when you compare it against other major national and international cities, but put it up against most American cities and it's actually pretty good. I think people seem to be forgetting that LA has multiple light rail lines, subways, and a fairly extensive commuter bus -- all in addition to a fairly good network of buses (including things like the Orange Line and the Rapid buses), not to mention decent Amtrak service to places like San Diego or north to Santa Barbara. Ridership is also extremely high, although admittedly not huge as a per capita rate. Still, the system is far better than many people acknowledge, although there are some definite rail gaps in portions of the city/region. And there is, of course, much left to be done.

[Charles]

If there was no traffic on any streets or freeways and gas was $1/gallon, would you still advocate more mass transit?