if you could rebuild LA's subway/light rail system from scratch (Brea: freeway, center)

[Kymberleigh Richards]

Originally Posted by Island_OnThe_Land

Here's my understanding of it: the Green Line is the "train to nowhere" as why would anyone build a train to Norwalk? No offense to Norwalk.

Bottom line is that when the 105 Freeway was being built the thought was gee we are building from scratch so we have a chance to build a light rail line along this new freeway. And it was only then that the So. Bay officials (e.g., Mayors from Redondo, Torrance, etc) were like, "Hey if you are gonna build that line we'd like to have it come towards us rather than go to LAX."

The MTA Board that oversees the agency is comprised of local elected officials from around the county (at least it was back in the 80's and 90's). So they could twist arms and negotiate for compromises that were NOT necessarily good for the region but were good for local politics. They could say, "Hey I got the Green Line to come to our city."

Ummm ... no.

The Green Line was part of a consent decree with Caltrans to end the litigation that came from the eminent domain takeover and destruction of the homes that were along the route of what is now the Century (I-105) Freeway.

MTA did not even exist when the Green Line was planned. It only came into existence in 1993, while the line was under construction (it began operations two years later). MTA's predecessor, the Los Angeles County Transportation Commission (LACTC), was given the responsibility by Caltrans to design and build the Green Line per the above consent decree.

As for why it goes to El Segundo and Manhattan Beach instead of to LAX, it had nothing to do with the South Bay cities. Early in the planning process, LACTC intended the Green Line to operate along Aviation Blvd. to the airport, but the Los Angeles Airport Commission, for whatever idiotic reasons, did not want the line going there, and filed with the FAA to declare that the overhead electric wires for the rail line power constituted "a hazard to aircraft" because they would run underneath the approach for landing. LACTC then decided to route the line south to what was, at the time, a booming aerospace industry. Unfortunately, that industry went bust during the time the line was under construction, but LACTC didn't have a crystal ball.

If you stand on the platform at Aviation Green Line Station and look west, you will see a stub aimed toward the airport so that the line could branch to the airport in the future, so one could say LACTC did show some optimism that the situation would change later.

This is all well documented, if one chooses to research before posting.

[Kymberleigh Richards]

Originally Posted by K 22

Let's say for example that these were all in place: Downtown Connector (stations at 4th/Flower, 2nd/Hope and 2nd/Los Angeles), Expo Line to Santa Monica, Purple Line to Fairfax, Crenshaw/LAX Line.

First, let's take the Blue Line and Gold Line and extend them.

- Take the Gold Line off the Northern leg from Little Tokyo and up and have it run through the Downtown Connector and then along Expo to Santa Monica. The new Gold Line becomes a true East-West Line from Santa Monica to East LA. No need for a sole Expo Line either.

- Take the Blue Line, extend it past 7th Street - through Downtown and have it go to Pasadena. Blue goes from Pasadena to Long Beach.

This is precisely what Metro has described as the likely operation of the light rail lines once the Regional Connector is built.

Originally Posted by K 22

Secondly, I read the ultimate goal for the Crenshaw/LAX line is to go to Wilshire/La Brea. I think it should go up to Hollywood/Highland via La Brea. Put a station on Beverly or 3rd (3rd might be too close, I know), another on Santa Monica (with a transfer to the line they want to put there) and then to Hollywood/Highland. There, Hollywood/Highland to LAX, one seat ride.

Several people, and the organization Southern California Transit Advocates, have already suggested this.

[Russell Brown]

Correction, the (almost unanimous) local preferred alternative for the Regional Connector is 5th & Flower, 2nd & Hope, 2nd & Brodway/ Spring and 2nd & Alameda- underground below the existing (but future demolished) Office Depot.

The 2nd & Broadway underground station will make easy pedestrian connections to the proposed Downtown Streetcar and the Civic Center Red Line station and become a gateway to Historic Downtown and a revitalized Broadway.

[Kymberleigh Richards]

I probably should have edited the quote so as to not include the station list. My point was that K22's proposed through-routings are what Metro envisions using the Regional Connector.

[K 22]

Originally Posted by Russell Brown

Correction, the (almost unanimous) local preferred alternative for the Regional Connector is 5th & Flower, 2nd & Hope, 2nd & Brodway/ Spring and 2nd & Alameda- underground below the existing (but future demolished) Office Depot.

The 2nd & Broadway underground station will make easy pedestrian connections to the proposed Downtown Streetcar and the Civic Center Red Line station and become a gateway to Historic Downtown and a revitalized Broadway.

Shouldn't it be 2nd & Central and not 2nd & Alameda? From some of the diagrams I've seen, the connector runs along 2nd Street and then turns to come out diagonally near 1st and Alameda where the Office Depot is and then run along 1st. That would be much simpler to do from Central than Alameda, I think.

[K 22]

Originally Posted by Kymberleigh Richards

Several people, and the organization Southern California Transit Advocates, have already suggested this.

Is the preferred route to go up La Brea? Because I saw something not too long ago that suggested it going up Fairfax instead.

[Kymberleigh Richards]

To answer both of K22's questions at once:

Everything I have seen thus far on the updated Regional Connector shows the two tunnel portals exiting onto the existing right-of-way paralleling Alameda north of 1st and paralleling 1st east of Alameda. The documentation from Metro confirms this.

I don't believe, from what I have seen thus far, that the station entrance portal locations are anywhere near firm. In any case, it will be called "Little Tokyo/Arts District Station" since it will replace the existing ground level platform and therefore nitpicking about Central vs. Alameda is entirely academic.

So.CA.TA has not suggested a specific routing for an extension of the Crenshaw line to Hollywood, but I think it is likely that the "Pink Line" subway extension many are pushing would not co-exist with a LRT extension. One possibility is for the Crenshaw line, once it intersects with Expo, to veer northwest and go up San Vicente to Wilshire*, then via the "Pink" route through West Hollywood to Hollywood/Highland Station.

*-A nice advantage to this would be the potential for a rail interface at Pico/Rimpau Transit Center, where several Metro and Santa Monica lines already meet.

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by the one

maybe hub was the wrong word. dtla could be the center of a doughnut. and a series of larger doughnuts ring the center? doughnuts

I believe Crenshaw might have been part of a plan for a "ring".

[K 22]

I got another idea for a line.

I know there's a 405/Sepulveda Pass line in planning at the moment but here's what I got for a "Valley to LAX" heavy rail line - here's where the stations would be.

> Roscoe/Van Nuys
> Van Nuys Metrolink
> Sherman Way/Van Nuys
> Victory/Van Nuys
> Oxnard/Van Nuys (transfer to Orange)
> Burbank/Van Nuys
> Ventura/Van Nuys
> Wilshire/Westwood/UCLA (transfer to Purple)
> Santa Monica/Westwood
> Olympic/Westwood (maybe)
> Exposition/Westwood (transfer to Expo)
> Venice/Overland
> Jefferson/Sawtelle/Sepulveda
> Westfield/Fox Hills/Sepulveda
> Manchester/Sepulveda
> Century/Aviation/LAX (transfer to Crenshaw, and maybe even Green?)

Yeah, it's pretty much avoiding the 405 for the most part but again this is a "what if" thread.

[SoCal35]

Originally Posted by K 22

I got another idea for a line.

I know there's a 405/Sepulveda Pass line in planning at the moment but here's what I got for a "Valley to LAX" heavy rail line - here's where the stations would be.

> Roscoe/Van Nuys
> Van Nuys Metrolink
> Sherman Way/Van Nuys
> Victory/Van Nuys
> Oxnard/Van Nuys (transfer to Orange)
> Burbank/Van Nuys
> Ventura/Van Nuys
> Wilshire/Westwood/UCLA (transfer to Purple)
> Santa Monica/Westwood
> Olympic/Westwood (maybe)
> Exposition/Westwood (transfer to Expo)
> Venice/Overland
> Jefferson/Sawtelle/Sepulveda
> Westfield/Fox Hills/Sepulveda
> Manchester/Sepulveda
> Century/Aviation/LAX (transfer to Crenshaw, and maybe even Green?)

Yeah, it's pretty much avoiding the 405 for the most part but again this is a "what if" thread.

I like most of your proposed stops; however, are you suggesting this would be underground? or above ground down the center of the 405 Freeway (like the Green line on the 105)?