if you could rebuild LA's subway/light rail system from scratch (Torrance: live in, versus)

[majoun]

Originally Posted by nickdahammer

I was in the Transbay tube during an earthquake. It was actually one of the safer places in SF to be. No buildings falling on me at least. When the shaking started, the train disengaged from the rail, then once the shaking stopped, the rail and track re-engaged and we were off.

Not only did the BART hold up very well during the Loma Prieta earthquake, the Mexico City Metro held up very well during the earthquake there in 1985. There was only a brief disruption in service and the system was generally intact except for some minor damage at some stops, something that cannot be said about the rest of DF.

The Istanbul metro also held up pretty well during the Big One there.

[yamota]

Well I guess only time, and "the big one", will tell

[nickdahammer]

I know of NO system of that size that pays for itself. The freeways certainly don't pay for themselves. We support Caltrans for maintenance and engineering and upkeep. When a bridge needs replacement we pay for it.

Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE

Since we are stuck, I say scrap it or make it pay its own way. I always love these ballot propositions that we vote on with many funding money into systems that the majority of us will never use. We the people have voted yes to transportation porpositions that fund LA area light rail systems and it does nothing for those of us way out here in the sticks so to speak.

[JDRCRASH]

It's still a work in progress, but: My Vision - Google Maps

[Charles]

Originally Posted by JDRCRASH

It's still a work in progress, but: My Vision - Google Maps

This is very cool.

I noticed the lime line doesn't use the existing green line tracks south of the 105 and west of Aviation ???
Looks like you re-routed the greenline north to LAX and Westchester instead of east (to be served by the lime line).
I see you wisely extended the green line east to the metrolink station in Norwalk.

I notice the green, lime, and olive lines all meet east of LAX, is that due to a planned "external terminal" type thing for LAX? I thought I remember reading something about that. One reason LAX took out the homes NW of Century and La Cieniga????

Why are the green line tracks realigned from the existing green line tracks on the 105 near the 105/405 intersection between Aviation and Prairie?

[the one]

as a daily bus/rail rider...

the system is pretty good. keep in mind that i use it in the downtown, the southside and eastside areas. those are all high density areas with existing ridership.

if we want to see where to place new rail, i would argue that we should be looking at previous models (like the red car map), see where the area is most dense and transit dependant, and see where ridership exists.

with that in mind a line from the slauson junction over to crenshaw and south would be very beneficial and efficient. anotherleg of that line heading east from the slauson junction would also have high ridership. those areas along slauson (south central, Hp, Maywood) are high density (as well as park poor), and have lots of people who already use buses and bikes in lieu of cars (the ROW from slauson junction east and west still exists, tho its not as wide heading west, but very wide heading east towards the LA river).

lets build it where the people need it and where folks already use PT. not where it will be the vogue thing to do. i love the gold line, i just wish the east side extension had been built first. it was needed in that area before it was needed in the PAS area. since both legs are up and running i have no complaints now. lets just not repeat the same mistakes. i do think its a WASTE to extend these lines (to ontario) before focusing on the central areas of LA county.

my dream is to have downtown as the hub (including the connector taking the blue line to the gold line) and working outwards to the south, to the east, to the west.

[JDRCRASHER]

It's too bad there's a limit to how many lines you can draw on one Google Maps page; you have to scroll down and look at page 2.

Originally Posted by Charles

This is very cool.

Thanks.

I noticed the lime line doesn't use the existing green line tracks south of the 105 and west of Aviation ???

I've been torn on this. There haven't been any official proposals yet for a full 405 corridor (Long Beach to Sylmar). The Harbor Subdivision is planned on continuing down the ROW along Aviation instead of using the Green Line's ROW just West of there. Of course, we can't simply abandon the Green Line's existing stations in El Segundo.

Looks like you re-routed the greenline north to LAX and Westchester instead of east (to be served by the lime line).
I see you wisely extended the green line east to the metrolink station in Norwalk.

Yeah, we can only have 1 green line.

I notice the green, lime, and olive lines all meet east of LAX, is that due to a planned "external terminal" type thing for LAX? I thought I remember reading something about that. One reason LAX took out the homes NW of Century and La Cieniga????

As far as I know, the so-called "People Mover" will take people from Aviation/Century to the terminals, while (from what i've seen), the Green Line would be the only metro line that would go straight to the terminals.

Why are the green line tracks realigned from the existing green line tracks on the 105 near the 105/405 intersection between Aviation and Prairie?

I'm still editing it. When I first started this map, I dragged the lines from Points A to Points B. Then I started aligning them from there.

Originally Posted by the one

if we want to see where to place new rail, i would argue that we should be looking at previous models (like the red car map),

I've pondered that, too. But it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of those old lines were considered Commuter Rail, because back then, it might've taken an hour or two to go from, say, DTLA to Long Beach. Obviously, technology has improved greatly since then.

i do think its a WASTE to extend these lines (to ontario) before focusing on the central areas of LA county.

I agree that Central areas should be focused on first (and they are-Gold and Expo Lines, Purple Line extension, Crenshaw, Harbor Subdivision, 405 corridor), but here's something to keep in mind:

The Metrolink stop in Ontario is almost 3 miles from the airport terminal. You need to take a shuttle. This isn't to say I would recommend someone from Central LA to take the Gold Line to Ontario (Metrolink is better if you're coming from farther away), but people in the San Gabriel Valley most likely choose that airport over LAX due to traffic, so it makes sense from that standpoint.

my dream is to have downtown as the hub (including the connector taking the blue line to the gold line) and working outwards to the south, to the east, to the west.

Here's the problem: we need to avoid have too many lines heading to Downtown, because LA is not a monocentric city like NYC or Chicago. It's a polycentric city like Tokyo, London, etc.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by Charles

There are shuttle buses that move people to LAX from the green line right before it turns south. (Probably serves less than 1% of LAX users.)

Maybe more users would be served if folks could ride the green line all the way to the airport versus being forced to connect to shuttle buses. When I was traveling through SF, I noticed a large ridership on the Bart line that serves SFO Airport. LA is far behind the times and there is NO MORE ROOM for all the vehicles that are traveling on our overcongested freeway system.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by Lifeshadower

I always thought those propositions were only for residents of LA County? If not, sorry about that. At least you guys get the prestige of helping us out

From a person who heavily used the Red Line and (when it opened in 2005) Orange Line a lot prior to going to college and getting a car, I would seriously think about improving bus service first before thinking about more rail plans. One day, I wanted to go to downtown LA from Northridge (which, as far as I know, will never be directly served by rail aside from Metrolink). It took me around 2 hours to do it (as opposed to 30 minutes on the 405-101). I spent maybe around 1 hour and 15 minutes waiting for the bus to get me from my house to the Orange Line, and waiting from the Orange Line back to my house. You can have all this rail, but if its not complemented by a good, or at least adequate bus system, its nearly pointless.

Hypothetically speaking though, I like the Pacific Red Car lines. However, due to increased traffic and usage, I would opt for more light rail/BRT lines throughout the San Fernando Valley and subway lines everywhere else. I like 30/10 plan, but the problem is implementation. Let's see where the 'Subway to the Sea' goes first before talking about more lines.

I don't know how many C-D users have done this, but I've actually been on all the rail lines and ridden it from end to end (at least prior to the new openings). I love the fact LA has a start on something, but now its time to make it whole.

I have ridden all the rail lines from end to end except for the new Eastside extension of the Gold line. As you mentioned, the reason why our transit system isn't as busy as they could be is due to poor bus connections and lack of on-time performance. Metrolink is wonderful for those who commute into Downtown LA but the vast majority of us work outside of downtown. Try commuting via commuter rail into OC from LA County. Limited options (Why doesn't OC even HAVE light rail anyways or more freeway express buses?)

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by Charles

Out of curiosity, why would South Bay people want a train that heads from their neighborhoods (and those demographics) east along the 105 to Norwalk? In other words, what good does the green line do for South Bay people? Do a lot of South Bay people ride the green line?

#1 - It connects the Southbay with the Blue Line.