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So, if high population=high crime = higher taxes
Then, how can small population with low crime also = higher taxes
Yeah?
So this is why my property taxes are so low?
My vehicle taxes are laughably low?
My income taxes are non-existent?
Okay fine tobacco taxes and gasoline taxes are high, but not much more than the national average.
As we have discussed many times on CD, when each and every tax is lower, than why insist that they are higher?
On an individual basis, you can find other states where this tax is lower, or that tax is lower. but the only method to make the false claim that Maine's taxes are higher is to use the 'tax burden' and assume that everyone here is below the poverty level and paying all of those taxes.
Not everyone is below the poverty level, and not every is paying all of those taxes, so the argument is a fallacy.
I thought he/she was more directing that question towards the authorit-eyes who will reason us any which way that pops up why we pay taxes. high crime, low crime, no crime. LOL. Maybe I read it wrong.
Or maybe I'm just anti-politician and read EVERYTHING wrong.
For the record the taxes that have put me off personally are for pretty darn nice places I could live in in Maine. Others have had very reasonable taxes but poor land quality or less land.
Many's the time I wished I were as self-sufficient as you. I'm pretty independent but I wouldn't be capable of building me own chateau.. Would be wonderful to just pick the land I want and go. My options are limited to finding a house I can tolerate on land I can LOVE or maybe both together... I don't pay any taxes now (barely) and likes it just foin. But, I considered his statement more a question to our politicians (yes do ask them how they reason it out for one and then the exact opposite reason for some MORE taxing) .... To me the land and location is much more important than the house ... but on the other hand I'll need a place to store me mittens.
I am reading the tax debate but wasn't intending on participating. You guys are over my head. THis tax debate (in some form) is raging in every locale. I DO participate here locally because I got tired of the lies being slung ... BUT I disparage people who moved here and then decided that the taxes they knew about BEFORE they packed the car were too high. FIguring if they can keep their hummers and their benzes on the road than they should be able to pay some property taxes at a higher rate than others. (these folks new people here posed the argument that their older neighbors were paying lower taxes for same type house .... they want to see THAT older neighbor be jacked up equal to them, doesn't seem fair to me and as usual it's propaganda for the result of guess who getting more of guess who's money??)
I'm looking at a place where it's 1200 per year and to me, that's high. BUT, it's in a pretty nice locale ....
I will say that it is scary to think of what they might do 'next'. Supposin next year they want to ..... erect a statue to the mayor??? LOL !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper
Yeah?
So this is why my property taxes are so low?
My vehicle taxes are laughably low?
My income taxes are non-existent?
Okay fine tobacco taxes and gasoline taxes are high, but not much more than the national average.
As we have discussed many times on CD, when each and every tax is lower, than why insist that they are higher?
On an individual basis, you can find other states where this tax is lower, or that tax is lower. but the only method to make the false claim that Maine's taxes are higher is to use the 'tax burden' and assume that everyone here is below the poverty level and paying all of those taxes.
Not everyone is below the poverty level, and not every is paying all of those taxes, so the argument is a fallacy.
Just as not everyone is below the poverty level and not everyone is paying all those taxes, not everyone in the STATE is paying "laughably low" taxes either. One of the things we have noticed in living here is there seems to be a definite disdain for those who are deemed "rich". By this, I mean anyone making more than $40k a year. I suppose this is a product of the many outsiders coming here and buying the land, etc. that has been discussed at length on these forums. I do not have contempt for those who choose to live different than I do, so I do not think it much to ask the same. We moved here for a job, and to explore a new place having moved every couple of years for the past 14. We didn't come here to impose our views of the way we think things should be on others, we didn't try to buy a bunch of land and tell you not to go near it. Yes, we live in a "city" and our taxes are definitely high. Could I find someplace where they are higher, certainly. Just as I could find places where they are lower, but to say as a STATE Maine does not have high taxes is simply not the case. I posted some of our expenses to show those looking to move here an example of the varying expenditures from area to area. I was not complaining or arguing, and I certainly didn't mean to cause anyone to get defensive about the topic.
My post was a question... if born and breed Mainers tell us we should expect high taxes because there are few people paying them, then why is the same argument used to explain high taxes in heavily populated areas.
If the taxes on us "city folk" are high and the taxes for those up north are low, then who is more likely to be paying for the roads to get to those houses in the woods?
We would never choose to move to or away from anywhere based on taxes alone. The purpose of these forums to my understanding is to provide information. IMHO it is an injustice to paint an incomplete picture of the STATE as a whole. Having paid taxes in other states, I assure you our taxes are HIGHER along with the cost of many other things... that's great for all up north that were able to find an area where it isn't the same story.
Just as not everyone is below the poverty level and not everyone is paying all those taxes, not everyone in the STATE is paying "laughably low" taxes either. One of the things we have noticed in living here is there seems to be a definite disdain for those who are deemed "rich". By this, I mean anyone making more than $40k a year. I suppose this is a product of the many outsiders coming here and buying the land, etc. that has been discussed at length on these forums. I do not have contempt for those who choose to live different than I do, so I do not think it much to ask the same. We moved here for a job, and to explore a new place having moved every couple of years for the past 14. We didn't come here to impose our views of the way we think things should be on others, we didn't try to buy a bunch of land and tell you not to go near it. Yes, we live in a "city" and our taxes are definitely high. Could I find someplace where they are higher, certainly. Just as I could find places where they are lower, but to say as a STATE Maine does not have high taxes is simply not the case. I posted some of our expenses to show those looking to move here an example of the varying expenditures from area to area. I was not complaining or arguing, and I certainly didn't mean to cause anyone to get defensive about the topic.
My post was a question... if born and breed Mainers tell us we should expect high taxes because there are few people paying them, then why is the same argument used to explain high taxes in heavily populated areas.
If the taxes on us "city folk" are high and the taxes for those up north are low, then who is more likely to be paying for the roads to get to those houses in the woods?
We would never choose to move to or away from anywhere based on taxes alone. The purpose of these forums to my understanding is to provide information. IMHO it is an injustice to paint an incomplete picture of the STATE as a whole. Having paid taxes in other states, I assure you our taxes are HIGHER along with the cost of many other things... that's great for all up north that were able to find an area where it isn't the same story.
Growing up in Bath, there was always a class differential. There were the BIW executives and the yard workers. Never the twain shall meet.
And I hear exactly what you are saying about the average Mainer resenting anyone with a upper middle class income or an existance that was supported by more money than the average stiff would ever see.
I listened to my father and mother wail about that for years...jealousy and resentment. It didn't only reside in Bath. I saw the same resentment in Portland and in other areas.
Wealthy business owners in the state frequently drive their eight year old Chevy to work and maintain a rather low key existance except in the more populated areas...Falmouth, Portland, Cumberland, Cape Elizabeth, and the areas on the coast south of those places.
If the taxes on us "city folk" are high and the taxes for those up north are low, then who is more likely to be paying for the roads to get to those houses in the woods?
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Having paid taxes in other states, I assure you our taxes are HIGHER along with the cost of many other things... that's great for all up north that were able to find an area where it isn't the same story.
Don't lump the entire North of the State into the "Being carried by the Southern part" argument either. If you live in a town that is incorporated up here, you pay high property taxes just like downstate. (example - my house, on the books and taxed at $40,000, property tax - $955 a year) Valued at $40,000 just because real estate up this way is stupid cheap. Same house in Portland would go for 3X that amount in a comparable neighborhood.
You drive a nice vehicle up here, you pay the same or more excise on that vehicle than they do in Portland (depends on the town, for some reason). If you should happen to have a new full sized truck with all the bells and whistles, you pay more than those luxury vehicles you mentioned. Unfortunately, some people HAVE to have a big full sized truck to do their jobs. They pay well over $700 a year for excise. (thank God I am not one of them!) We up here pay our fair share of the tax that goes to our roads, thank you very much.
I was reading about how the un-organized townships manage to pay such low taxes and still manage to cover the expenses of the school districts. It seemed logical that the state must be subsidizing the educational expense. Since the national average for public-funded education is around $8,400 per grade-level, how could my $47 possibly pay for my son to attend school?
The Maine.gov website has a great deal of information within it.
Maine has 33,215 square miles in it, every acre that is privately owned is charged a mil rate and pays taxes, over half of the state is UT around 17,000 square miles. Every acre of that land is charge property taxes. In all of those UTs there are only around 9,000 residents. I can't seem to find it right now, but it seems like the website says that in all of the UTs there are only like 1,100 public school students.
So many acres and so few students using the public-funded school system, that is why the State's Property Tax Division is able to fund our schools and yet charge us so little. When our son goes to a school, the school does receive a tuition from the state, but that money comes from the taxes of the UTs. We are not subsidized, we pay for our services.
So it is with our roads. We have few roads running through the UTs,
It works out.
I said "... that's great for all up north that were able to find an area where it isn't the same story"
"All" meaning all of you that were able to, not "all" as in EVERYONE who lives up north.
Taxes are obviously a heated subject in this forum and my comments are not meant to offend but clearly I have touched a nerve...
I came to the forum a couple months ago to see if others had the same uncertainty of to stay or go. I never felt the urge to post anything until recently, but was content to shake my head in frustration or nod with agreement. My intention in joining was simply to give the perspective of someone who has made the move to someone contemplating the move. It is not my style to make sarcastic remarks and follow them up with smiley faces any more than I would make a rude comment and pass it off as "just kidding". When typing, meanings can be misinterpreted which clearly is often the case on here. So I am content to go back to observing on the sidelines and just offer this piece of advise... If you are trying to convince those "from away" that Mainers aren't rude and are generally accepting then take care in what is posted here. Also, if life here in Maine is so perfect in those patches in the woods, and development is shunned, then why the defensiveness and the contempt for others with a different way of life. You can't like the jobs the tourist create, but wish they never came here.
To all those contemplating the move good luck to you all. Maine is a beautiful state with some obvious challenges so do not take the decision lightly and read between the lines in the forums. It isn't perfect, all moose, snow and fabulous scenery just as it isn't all taxes, and bad attitudes either despite many of the postings here.
... Taxes are obviously a heated subject in this forum and my comments are not meant to offend but clearly I have touched a nerve...
I too apologize if I have touched a nerve.
Quote:
... It is not my style to make sarcastic remarks and follow them up with smiley faces ...
While I do use smiley faces, my intent has been to show that I am not intending offense.
I most clearly have not used any sarcasm.
Quote:
... You can't like the jobs the tourist create, but wish they never came here.
I really do not care if tourists make jobs or not. I am not sure that tourism makes any jobs in this area of Maine. I do not know anyone here locally who earns any money from tourism.
Quote:
... To all those contemplating the move good luck to you all. Maine is a beautiful state with some obvious challenges so do not take the decision lightly and read between the lines in the forums. It isn't perfect, all moose, snow and fabulous scenery just as it isn't all taxes, and bad attitudes either despite many of the postings here.
It really is true. Maine is a terrific state, but you have to be tough, and you have to like nine months of winter and three months of bad skiing.
Maine is beautiful...the population is one third of the county where I now live..the smallest county in CA. There is lots of space, lots of land, lots of lakes, and great fishing and hunting, terrific seashore, and the best seafood in the world, but anyone who moves to Maine still needs to answer the question, "if Maine is so desireable, why are there only about one million people in a state that is larger than the rest of New England?"
I have no regrets about living many years in Maine, but neither do I have regrets about leaving it. The winters finally drove me out.
The beauty and the space can come back to bite you in the butt if you aren't willing to pay the price for the quality of life you "think" you might love so much.
... anyone who moves to Maine still needs to answer the question, "if Maine is so desireable, why are there only about one million people in a state that is larger than the rest of New England?"
Having not been in the position of having to leave Maine, I do not know.
I suspect that the minimum wage jobs, combined with advertising campaigns showing $30,000 cars, and Ipods, and all of the other trappings of high wage career fields; would cause problems.
I have known friends who have earned high wages, and they lived to keep up with the projected image they saw on TV. $500,000 homes, new cars every two years, every new toy for young and old, and they are still working to support that habit.
I think that if your were living in Maine, and got bit by that bug, then it would likely drive you out of Maine.
On the other hand, I do see lifestyles that do not require such high incomes. Perhaps lifestyles focused instead on friends and/or family, spending time with family rather than focused on getting more over-time.
My SIL lives in Maryland, she is a corporate exec, and she is chasing that dream. She earns a crazy amount, and she keeps more money in her checking account than my annual Gross. These are two entirely different lifestyles.
If you need two 'current year' new cars, and the most expensive house on your block, then I do agree that you would likely need to leave Maine.
But that stereotype simply does not cover everyone living in Maine.
Since moving to Maine, I have met a lot of folk who are raising families, having fun, and would not leave Maine for anything in the world.
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