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GeoffD is 100% accurate in pointing out that the majority of the city is a perfectly livable place for middle and even upper middle class people. I know plenty as well - most of them love living there. I've always said that if my career wasn't so Boston-Centric, I'd consider a home in the Whaling District or the West End. It's a wonderful area with a lot of good shops and restaurants and a buttload of charm that you'll pay 10x as much for closer to Boston.
BostonBornMassMade is right in that it's not categorized as a "middle class" city because while the problems that exist in New Bedford (poverty, poor public schools, crime, etc.) exist in places like Boston, they're not overshadowed by an extremely prosperous economic engine and optics that come with it.
New Bedford is a divided city. Downtown New Bedford is a gem, as are all of the attractions GeoffD mentioned (Ft. Taber is more than just a historic site, it's a prominent and beautiful park on a peninsula in Buzzards Bay with great views of the Elizabeth Islands - it's very widely used by locals for everything from hanging out to engagement and wedding photos). What you don't see on I-195 is the unique (no other "Gateway City has anything comparable) whaling era downtown with it's cobblestone streets and gaslights, the beaches, the waterfront, etc. It's underrated in that regard. But the problem is that it follows the mold of some of the old rustbelt cities (Baltimore's Inner Harbor is a good large scale comp) in that the great restaurants, museums, theater, shopping, bars, etc. are largely patronized by people from the better off communities outside of the city. I used to frequent Rose Alley, Pour Farm, Sliante (it's something else now I believe), Cork, Waterfront Grille/Merrill's, Whaler's Tavern, Freestones, Black Whale, Carmine's, etc. fairly regularly. Just about everyone was from Dartmouth, Freetown/Lakeville, Acushnet, Fairhaven, Mattapoisett, etc. Locals hung out in "New Bedford Bars" in the North or South End. There's a general attitude that "Downtown New Bedford is for the people from outside the city."
In addition to the geographic setting, New Bedford benefits from relative isolation. Unlike Lowell, Lawrence, Brockton, etc. New Bedford has more semi-independence which has allowed it to emerge as something of a small regional entertainment hub. Everything "better" (Providence, Boston, Newport, etc.) is just far enough to create some demand for those types of things in New Bedford. But it's still a city where there isn't enough of a middle and upper middle class in the city itself to overshadow or counter many of its problems. The result is that many (most even) locals don't really tout these things as assets since they don't see them as being for New Bedford.
Anyone interested in New Bedford take note. This is probably the best description and breakdown of New Bedford you'll get on this forum.
The city, specifically the down town, has really improved in the last 10-15 years. There are some long term issues that have kept it affordable/less desirable.
I get the feeling people squeezed from the housing market around Boston, specifically young folks, are going to keep the revitalization going and possibly excellerate it. Especially once the rail comes in and remote work gets more engrained. I think it's not difficult to imagine something like this:
John Smith goes to school in the Boston Area. He starts working for a Boston based company. After a few month working in the office he's allowed to work from home 3-4 days a week but has to come into the office atleast once a week. He's paying $1600 a month renting a small apartment and living with a roomate. After a year of that he wants to look for a home in the area, but prices are way beyond what he can afford.
He finds New Bedford. He's amazed at the prices. 300k for a multifamily?? What!! So he takes a leap, bringing his skills and education with him. That one time a week he needs to be in the office he just hops on the South Coast rail and avoids sitting in traffic. Ends up enjoying the area amd staying long term to raise a family.
Unlike Lowell, Lawrence, Brockton, etc. New Bedford has more semi-independence which has allowed it to emerge as something of a small regional entertainment hub. Everything "better" (Providence, Boston, Newport, etc.) is just far enough to create some demand for those types of things in New Bedford.
Lowell and Lawrence are the same distance from Boston than New Bedford is from Providence or Newport though.
Lowell and Lawrence are the same distance from Boston than New Bedford is from Providence or Newport though.
Sure, but Boston is a much bigger city with a much further reach - both physically (the extent of the 'burbs) and cultural influence. Both Lowell and Lawrence are better connected to Boston as well (commuter rail, more bus service). New Bedford is definitely more culturally cut off from Providence than Lowell/Lawrence are from Boston. This especially true when you factor in surrounding communities. Places like Tewksbury, Andover, Billerica, etc. are much more intertwined with Metro Boston than places like Dartmouth, Acushnet, or Fairhaven are with Providence.
I think it's not difficult to imagine something like this:
John Smith goes to school in the Boston Area. He starts working for a Boston based company. After a few month working in the office he's allowed to work from home 3-4 days a week but has to come into the office atleast once a week. He's paying $1600 a month renting a small apartment and living with a roomate. After a year of that he wants to look for a home in the area, but prices are way beyond what he can afford.
He finds New Bedford. He's amazed at the prices. 300k for a multifamily?? What!! So he takes a leap, bringing his skills and education with him. That one time a week he needs to be in the office he just hops on the South Coast rail and avoids sitting in traffic. Ends up enjoying the area amd staying long term to raise a family.
I’m sorry it’s difficult to imagine this when Providence Eli’s dirt cheap compared to Boston, has pre existing commuter rail, and is way better than New Bedford.closer to Boston too. John already has friends at Brown/JWU.
If you get priced out all the way to New Bedford form Boston? You’re not a high earner with enough disposable income to alter the city. There’s very cheap prices in Taunton and Providence. And why not invest in a rental property and live in Dartmouth-oh wait everyone already does that..
Another thing Downtown NB is the definition of vanilla, coastal, small town New England in feel. And I gotta tell ya-the demographic that’s into seafaring New England tales and colonial architecture ain’t exactly a booming one, and in the younger part of that demographic? They’ve got OPTIONS, very often international options on where to live and NB ain’t gonna be one of em.
You have to be able to find a way to capitalize on the grit, the multiculturalism if you expect to attract Gen Z on down. Either the community has to build the momentum itself and upscale and support more welcoming, attractive, hip, diverse, venues or the city has to intervene... right now-as is? New Bedford will always be the sales Especially as colonial New England history fades from centrality within public school history curriculums. I say all this with the utmost confidence. Waiting on New Bedford to take off? you might as well wait on New London.
Lowell is much further along in terms of appeal to a younger hipper demographic than New Bedford. Because I think the community in Lowell realizes hipsters and college students are the way for cities like that. New Bedford never gonna get the Finance/tech bros so it needs to open its arms to small businesses and artist etc like Providence.
Just as real "hippies" have come and gone, so have true hipsters. What you have now are simply cheap corporate copies. Banality at its best. And they aren't going to make or break a community.
Just as real "hippies" have come and gone, so have true hipsters. What you have now are simply cheap corporate copies. Banality at its best. And they aren't going to make or break a community.
Yes they can make or break a community are because they establish the arts scene, enrich the bar scene, they often go on to open restaurants and establishments, with them comes live music and other trendy things. THye might not go by the name hipster but they exist and your gonna need them if you want to turn a corner. Because you're not going to get the yuppies. They've got real options. If you give up on hipster who are you thinking realistically moves there-realistically being the key word.
Places like Fishtown or Davis Square only became what they are today because of the hipsters who settled there. Same for Williamsburg, same to a lesser extent for Chelsea and Jamaica Plain.
Yes they can make or break a community are because they establish the arts scene, enrich the bar scene, they often go on to open restaurants and establishments, with them comes live music and other trendy things. THye might not go by the name hipster but they exist and your gonna need them if you want to turn a corner. Because you're not going to get the yuppies. They've got real options. If you give up on hipster who are you thinking realistically moves there-realistically being the key word.
Places like Fishtown or Davis Square only became what they are today because of the hipsters who settled there. Same for Williamsburg, same to a lesser extent for Chelsea and Jamaica Plain.
Then you're really just talking about people who happen to enjoy urban culture. Artists establish art scenes and other culture, not Gen Z "trendies", specifically. When you say "turn a corner" I think it should be noted that not all communities want to end up being a gentrified corporate wasteland. The hipsters who settled in Somerville were true hipsters who brought originality and an actual subculture which added to the existing diversity in neighboring Cambridge. Same goes for places like Williamsburg in Brooklyn. What diversity and originality are the wannabes bringing? I don't expect New Bedford or Providence, which I love, to thrive anytime soon until they get an economy and jobs. Providence has its share of commuters to Boston, but otherwise it's not a booming mecca and it's been an overflow for Boston commuters looking for cheaper living for years now. I'm not sure Rhode Island even wants an economy based on the people they choose to run their state. Not really sure how the state stays in business.
Last edited by bostongymjunkie; 12-01-2020 at 06:56 PM..
I don't expect New Bedford or Providence, which I love, to thrive anytime soon until they get an economy and jobs. Providence has its share of commuters to Boston, but otherwise it's not a booming mecca and it's been an overflow for Boston commuters looking for cheaper living for years now. I'm not sure Rhode Island even wants an economy based on the people they choose to run their state. Not really sure how the state stays in business.
RI/Providence is an interesting one as its hard to tell whether better state leadership would yield a more robust jobs market, or whether the STEM talent concentration in central/eastern MA and southern NH would still limit private investment ... corps/start-ups deferring to MA/sNH instead. I suspect both are at play.
I suppose Prov is close enough via rail or auto that it could pull talent from greater Boston if the job market were compelling enough, but with comps generally reflecting the COL I don't see that happening. Current state leadership further undermines the effort, as you suggest. Additionally, most households are dual income these days so if your SO is stuck commuting to Burlington, Cambridge, etc. you're not relocating to RI when the rare biotech/R&D job pops up ... not when there's plenty of opportunities in eastern MA with higher comps.
A few of my former coworkers from NH and metrowest MA have taken remote positions for RI R&D firms as these firms have effectively exhausted local ME/EE/HF talent ... threw in the towel and will now accept remote with periodic onsite time. I love Providence , but due to the dismal job market the RI/South eastern MA coast is currently a retirement target only.
Can anyone please explain why someone (anyone?) with any type of means would move to New Bedford and not Providence? It's 15 minutes and at least 10 miles closer to Boston it also closer to MetroWest. It has good universities and a nice downtown. The COL is is 4% higher in Providence and housing is virtually identical in price.
Why would New Bedford turn around before Providence improves more? Serious question. Just seems like an MA superiority complex if I'm being honest. Doesn't seem grounded in reality.
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