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syracusa,
Have you considered that Lynnfield may not be actually uptight? By enrolling your son in preschool, you may have exposed yourself to the subgroup of residents whose children need earlier academic enrichment. I am sure that there are plenty of people who do not enroll their kids in preschools.
I have tried, he is apparently too young for the local soccer program and the nearest I found that has something for 4yo-s is relatively far away on the interstate. Believe it or not I have only recently received my driver's license and I am still extremely uncomfortable driving on interstates, in general. MA seems even harder for driving around than the Atlanta area so I had to skip that one. We will have to wait until Fall for soccer.
Besides, this is YET ANOTHER organized activity that places kids in a regiment, giving them yet another message that life is all about "winning" something, whether individually or in a team.
We will surely do soccer too but soccer is not the answer to my concerns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FellsMom
Everyone has his/her own priorities, those do not have to be yours.
If you think that allowing your kids to play outside and making friends in the neighborhood is a priority that should be very down on the list, then you have proven my point. Everyone certainly doesn't have "my" priorities.
Funny thing is that EVERYONE should have such priorities but it looks like I am the only sucker who left it at the top of the list.
Besides, this is YET ANOTHER organized activity that places kids in a regiment, giving them yet another message that life is all about "winning" something, whether individually or in a team.
We will surely do soccer too but soccer is not the answer to my concerns.
I meant that you will get to know people on the team and hopefully some of them will be in your neighborhood. If he is too young for town sports, you should look into programs run by recreation department. Again, this is a good way to get to know people in town, not an end to itself.
Also, kids often have play dates right after organized activities; this works well because kids from different neighborhoods can play together - this gives you more choices whom you play with - a great option to have.
Oh Syracusa, I think many of us owe you an apology. You were concerned with materialism and million dollar babies. We told you that the materialism that you saw in Atlanta wasn't an issue here in MA. All the while, not realizing what we covet here, education and the opportunity for our children to excel is it's equivalent.
Good, great or lousy, school system, it is all the same. Do not think that if you go to an "average" town you will escape any of this. My advice is to stick with a town that has a good system (as someone said before top 25%) and continue to allow your kids to be kids.
First of all, it gets better....well sort of. Truth of the matter is, parenting is a competitive sport. It starts with conception (I was in labor X hours, I got pregnant after X tries, I only ate wheat grass and protein to stimulate brain growth) and usually ends when that seemingly perfect child does something...dare I say it....childlike(or more likely teen like) that is not within the carefully formulated plan that Mommy and Daddy mapped out preconception. It could be quitting a sport that Mom and Dad were sure they would pursue professionally, or getting a mark below an A or B on a test or worse, they do something unsavory like choose the wrong friend- one who is not from as perfect a family or who is not part of a valuable network that will elevate the child's social status. There are those parents who come to their senses, realize that, no matter how much you plan, you can't always control the whim of an adolescent and they have a moment of feasting on crow. They realize that the mistakes and missteps that occur along the way are part of what builds the character of that child and makes him or her able to go out into the world and function independent of the plan. Sometimes they even have that moment where they feel like they are in a 12 step program and are able to declare : I HAVE A BLISSFULLY AVERAGE CHILD. Imagine that? Or they blame someone else and their angel's halo is still firmly ensconced over their golden brow and the success train rolls on.
We moved off of the south shore because we were sick of the rat race. People were hyper competitive about their kids. Youth sports and schools played into it. My kids were in a school system (a very low performing school system) where in GRADE 4, if you were not in the highest math group, it was predetermined that you would not be able to take pre- calculus in high school. Kids in this higher math group were developmentally ahead and able to solve word problems. That was the criteria. Some of them had lousy computation skills but that didn't matter. It was all about the word problem. It was also decided that honors classes were not going to part of your high school curriculum- even if you scored straight A's and made the honor roll for your entire Middle School Education. Boys are young as 6 years old were split up on football teams. You were Varsity or Jr. Varsity. Rather than offering a developmental program for the Jr. Varsity players, they were just put up against the "better kids" who were taught plays while the Jr. Varsity kids were their battering rams. The Jr. Varisity kids had their own games, at a dusty practice field while the Varsity kids were in the BIG STADIUM with an announcer and scoreboard! The Jr. Varsity kids had to go to the Varsity games- to learn but the truth was they were there to make the team look bigger and run water bottles out to the heroes on the field. At games, Varsity players get water, Jr. Varsity had to bring their own to games. And often the Varsity kids would stomp their water bottles, shooting caps across the field like rockets while amused parents looked on. Varsity kids- pizza parties at the coaches house- Jr. Varsity, not invited. I KID YOU NOT. Sports like baseball, basketball and soccer are worse. Club teams are the rage and parents pay thousands for their kids to play train for the future. Fine if they keep it at the club level but usually kids play both club and youth. They want the same rigor in youth and consider it "practice". If the club has a game, parents skip out on the youth, leaving the team high and dry. No sense of responsibility to the team, the just consider the team lucky to have their superstar when they are available. These overscheduled kids have no free time and as such, do not learn those valuable skills of being able to function in a setting that is not managed for them.
What I learned is that there are very few people out there who understood the true meaning of community and the importance that plays in the development of their children. In the school system I mentioned, parents of k who knew the school's standardized test scores were abysmal, made it clear their children were going to be off to private (most cases they confused private with parochial) high schools. Then amazingly, they would go to the High School Open House and become convinced that their child would be "fine" in said high school because "they would be in all honors classes" but anything less would result in a less than adequate education. So their kids muddle along, convinced they are "above average" and destined for greatness. These same parents, insist on their children taking every AP class available (which there weren't many)- it looks good on the transcript- not realizing the giant leap between the town's definition of "honors" and the College Board's rigorous standards. So teachers do their best, kids take the AP test and those kids who could have been raised by a pack of wild hyenas and done well, do so, and the "above average by said town's standard" kid does poorly. Same applies to the 6 year old "Varsity" football player. Suddenly this precocious powerhouse looks around the high school locker room and Jr. Varsity kid is bigger and stronger and...chest hair. Yep, puberty. It happens to all of them and it is a great equalizer. Jr. Varsity boy might not be the most skilled kid but guess what, the years of being an underdog just gave the kid mental toughness and a willingness to work hard to pursue something that he truly enjoys. It's not about glory or pizza parties, it's about having fun, sportsmanship and teamwork.
To bring it full circle, we moved to a good school system. My kids (one of whom was in LOW math) had to rise to the challenge. The bar had been raised. They struggled. They worked and guess what? They succeeded! My low math son is now getting a solid A-/B+ (it changes week to week) in Algebra. When a teacher mentioned "career in math" I literally laughed at him and asked him to double check his rank book. He chuckled too when I recounted the curriculum from the previous school. My son was not developmentally ready for the challenges that he was faced with in 4th grade and now he is. He's not a genius, his brain matured. Simple. Sports...are FUN. They work hard, the play hard and they are learning life lessons about commitment and team. If your grades aren't up to snuff, you aren't on the team. (MIAA rules for the entire state but let's just say that some towns get around them) If a boy wants to play football, he has to commit to volunteering at 3 community events throughout the year as part of that team commitment. It's about COMMUNITY!
My advice Syracusa is to keep doing what you are doing and pursuing that simple life. You will find those who are like minded. You will face heart ache and moments of wondering "what the heck is wrong with the world". But you will also be able to look back years from now and laugh at the folly of some of the parents (and some of your own) you met along the way. And when the kids get to high school and hopefully, they will be in a high school where independence is nurtured and students are encouraged to explore their interests, the dynamic changes. Groups will come together, new understandings will be reached, and kids will be okay with being good at some thing and average at others and they will make friends that share like interests..... even if it upsets their parents.
syracusa - What is your idea of success for your child? Is him going to a community college enough? I applaud your desire that he have a fun childhood, and of course, that's what he should have. But what's different for children today versus when I was a child growing up in Concord, MA is that it's so much harder to get into a decent college now. There's just so much more competition to get into the good schools, that the parents do need to plan ahead more. That's just what happens when the human population is higher everywhere in the world.
And even if you don't care where or if you son goes to college, the global job market is such, that he still needs to stand out as a young adult in some way in order to get a decent job. And I agree with the others, you don't have to push your child as hard as these other parents, but that there is some happy medium so that your son still has a great childhood, but turns into a young adult that is productive in a career he loves his whole life.
I must say that I'm glad to have been young when I was...
Miu, the problem many parents, are seeing is the pendulum swings from one extreme to another. Currently, every facet of a child's life is scheduled and organized. There are valuable life lessons learned during free play. Driven parents discount that and in the process, up the ante to levels that can not be sustained. Kids are under too much pressure to succeed from and early age- part of the problem is success is so narrowly defined.
syracusa - What is your idea of success for your child? Is him going to a community college enough? I applaud your desire that he have a fun childhood, and of course, that's what he should have. But what's different for children today versus when I was a child growing up in Concord, MA is that it's so much harder to get into a decent college now. There's just so much more competition to get into the good schools, that the parents do need to plan ahead more. That's just what happens when the human population is higher everywhere in the world.
And even if you don't care where or if you son goes to college, the global job market is such, that he still needs to stand out as a young adult in some way in order to get a decent job. And I agree with the others, you don't have to push your child as hard as these other parents, but that there is some happy medium so that your son still has a great childhood, but turns into a young adult that is productive in a career he loves his whole life...
I don't want to put words in her mouth, but I might guess that the implicit message and underlying assumptions in your post are one of the things that syracusa finds so aggravating.
You begin by asking if community college is "enough" and then talk about getting into a "decent" college and "good" schools. You then reference getting a "decent" job which, you go on to suggest, is necessary for a productive career.
It seems to me that your post oozes with the competition and one-upsmanship that syracusa finds so troubling. You appear to assume that higher education should be from a "good" or "decent" school -- woe presumably to those who go to lower tier state schools and community college, becasue it would seem in your eyes that these are really not good "enough." And god forbid that someone should not pursue higher education...how would they ever be "productive"?
I suppose you should be forgiven for this since it is a mindset that affects many people, indeed it is the base assumption found among many people who go to the "good" schools that produce, in their closed minds, the best people. As an academic I saw it in college and grad school, and I see it every day in higher education.
Can't one live an intelligent, happy, and fulfilled life if they don't get into one of those "good" schools? Shouldn't we appreciate those who go to community college (and no further) rather than implicitly sneering at their accomplishment and questioning whether it's "enough"? Shouldn't we value more things than -- and other things higher than -- productivity?
Again, I don't want to put words in her mouth, but I would gander that syracusa might ask why is there such competitiveness of what schools are "good"? Why can't we let kids be kids? Why is productivity the be-all and end-all? Why all this rat-race pressure? Why must everything be about getting ahead while losing sight of the people and relationships around us?
There are not unreasonable answers to some of these questions. But, at the same time, they are very reasonable -- and thoughtful -- questions to ask.
Can't one live an intelligent, happy, and fulfilled life if they don't get into one of those "good" schools?
By instinct I come down on syracusa's side in the debate, but it seems that what's driving a lot of this is a fear that, no, you won't be able to live a happy or fulfilled life, because in the economic future there will be a small number of "winners" (who will be too stressed to enjoy their spoils) and a large number of people who will face ever-declining wages and longer hours, and will struggle to make ends meet. It's a bleak outlook and I hope it's not true, but many people seem to fear that's where things are headed.
I already know a number of people, including in my own family, who went to community college, and for the most part they do struggle financially. 35 and single, living at home or in a run-down basement, driving a car with an expired registration because unable to pay to get the car repaired, barely making the monthly minimums on the credit cards despite not living particularly extravagently.
The funny thing is that I know others who did well at top schools and now have lucrative but highly demanding careers. I think they may be more unhappy than the first group, and many are planning their escape from these joyless lives.
There should be a happy medium between the "winners" and the "losers". Everyone should have a happy childhood, but they still need their parents' guidance into having a happy yet productive adult life after that happy childhood. And the fact is, we are in a global situation of having too many people on this planet. And that translates into the job market being very very competitive.
Going to a good college is also about having classmates that one can network with later on in life.
So it's important for parents to observe their children and find out what their talents and skills are, and how to maximize on them. And there is nothing wrong with setting the bar high enough for the child to be challenged in meeting these goals. Not all stress is bad. And how one deals with stress is also key here. And if the child turns out to be more talented in a blue collar trade, they still need to learn self discipline and basic skills like math in order to run their future business properly or to eventually go into management.
Parents also need to teach their children proper money management so that as adults, they can just say no to tempting credit card offers or buying more house than they can afford. And it's fine to have kids, but to wait and not have their kids too early in life and right out of school.
And also, one can live a very happy fulfilled feeling life without having luxury cars or a big house. And that's something else a parent can teach their child. To know what is essential to a good quality of life, and what is frivolous and wasteful. Who really needs to drive a fancy $45K+ car? And if one learns how to drive properly, who really needs an AWD car? I've lived in MA most of my life now, and I'm still happy with my FWD car with good snow tires on it. And because I know some basic mechanical skills, I'm not afraid to own an older car. Anyway, I really know how to stretch a dollar. I am also very openminded about what jobs I am willing to work.
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These overscheduled kids have no free time and as such, do not learn those valuable skills of being able to function in a setting that is not managed for them. 
