If this is what "GREAT" school districts boil down to...

[FellsMom]

Originally Posted by syracusa

But like I said before, that's a different topic than the one I was actually inquiring about (early and narrow academic pressure in specific towns).

I think what you saw as early and narrow academic pressure may not be a complete picture of what is going on. At the risk of sounding snobbish, I surmise that people in this area are in general better educated than the average (I think there is data to prove it). Consequently, many kids probably have high IQs to begin with and are likely naturally inclined to learn many things early, that includes academics.

The parents may not be pushing the kids and robbing their childhood, and the kids may be asking for the academic enrichment. It is not unusual that some kids prefer exploring deeply on certain subjects by themselves rather than playing with other kids who are not at the same developmental level. Do these kids turn out badly? Some probably do. Others are "Outliers" described by Malcolm Gladwell that include Bill Gates.

The "great school" towns here are usually the towns that have higher concentration of well educated people. This data should also be available online. I have lived in towns where the schools are not so great. We had to leave the last one we lived in because the parents there let their young kids have "free play" (running around screaming) at 10pm around our condo.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by FellsMom

At the risk of sounding snobbish, I surmise that people in this area are in general better educated than the average (I think there is data to prove it). Consequently, many kids probably have high IQs to begin with and are likely naturally inclined to learn many things early, that includes academics.

I personally don't think you ARE snobbish even if you SOUND so .
Your real "sin" is not in the hint that some people are just smarter than others and that might son might just not be in the "-er" group, but in that you fail to treat the concept of "natural intelligence" with the respect it deserves. Do intelligent humans beg to spend hours in solitude, surrounded by alphabet and numbers ever since they are a few months old? No. Those are possibly the future savant idiots (very rare, by the way), autists, Aspergers, and Lord knows what other conditions, and much more likely, blissfully average children "strongly encouraged" down this path by blissfully mediocre parents, who see education as the passport to a materially prosperous life and a well tickled ego, and not necessarily to wisdom, ethics and real understanding of the world.
And honestly, I didn't manage to spy the natural altert-ness and "astute-at-all-sorts-of-things" qualities that you imply such naturally intelligent kids would have, above and beyond early academics. For one, they sure don't seem capable of natural and spontaneous interaction with other little people. Isn't that part of intelligence?

Yes, people in the area have probably more years of formal education, on average, than those in towns with lower real estate values. But this is no news for anybody. As for the strict association you draw between intelligence and years of formal education completed, it's an interesting thesis you are advancing, one that I would love to rip apart bringing in all the complexities of this incredibly difficult to understand concept, particularly in cross-cultural perspective and in the context of our postmodern society.
Except that I won't, as I decided my arguments on the expanded topic are closed. All I can say is that you opened a major can of worms here and as tempting as it may be, I won't dive in because it's way too hot in there.

I will just add that we decided to allow the kids to spend the summer at their grandparents', in my "backwards" (lower IQ?) home country, where "playdates" are unheard of. They will just run around in the open fields with a few "primitive" little friends right next door (kids of my childhood friends) and whom they miss a lot; they will play games on their own just like they did last summer, without being directed, organized, driven to, enrolled in, guided into, and hovered over; they will ride little poneys and will jump from one house to another; will bathe in the nearby creek, and will just "run around screaming", heck....sometimes even past 10 am, especially when us, adults will commit the unthinkable sin of having a life of our own too. I know at least 7 individuals who spent their early childhoods like this and ended up "stealing" furiously coveted scholarships, fellowships and grants from their Western counterparts (locals) - graduating with sickeningly prestigious degrees and zero student debt. Maybe it will work for mine too. If not, maybe they'll go to "Shepherd" school so they can watch sheep for the rest of their days, all while thinking of the immortality of the soul. :-))))

Either way, I will measure their IQ-s pre- and post- experiment and at the end of the summer, I will let you know by how much the score dropped. Deal?

[miu]

Originally Posted by FellsMom

The "great school" towns here are usually the towns that have higher concentration of well educated people. This data should also be available online. I have lived in towns where the schools are not so great. We had to leave the last one we lived in because the parents there let their young kids have "free play" (running around screaming) at 10pm around our condo.

True. My childhood friends were very laid back and excelled in school without much effort. One friend's dad taught quantum mechanics at Harvard. Most of the other parents were well educated too.

Otherwise, I've also been friends with many international sorts. People from France, Morocco, India, Korea and China. And what they went through in grade school just blows away the American education system. They had hours more homework to do than we do here. This last year's US spelling bee was won by a child coached intensely by their East Indian parents.

As to who gets into the top colleges, well it's not all by pure academic merit and high SAT scores. Colleges try hard to have a diverse campus. So favoritism is shown towards African Americans. And in order to weed out all the Asian applicants, they set the standards for their admission much higher than the black and the white student applicants. And a student may get in because of some other special talent in sports or the arts.

[FellsMom]

syracusa,



The point I have been trying to make is that all people are different, please do not be so judgmental. Savants do not choose to be savants, idiots do not choose to be idiots, and geniuses do not choose to be geniuses. Besides, you have only saw a small portion of your neighbors.

You are lucky to have the option to send your children to Europe for summer. Others have to hit their books to learn a foreign language (thus have less time to freely play outside).

You are obviously endowed with high intelligence. However, your lack of understanding of people who are different from yourself is a real problem. I think that's usually measured by EQ. So you seem to be exactly the opposite to who you think you are.

[CaseyB]

The Education forum would be a good place to continue this discussion as it has become too general for the Massachusetts forum.