Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Perhaps the "good enough" school districts is the "great" I AM looking for. Or more likely, what I am looking for no longer exists. I recently read someone's reply on a thread about Weston and its highly desirable and enviable qualities, including "tremendous, stupendous" school system. I could not help but drawing on that post to get to my own simple question: where should we buy, if eventually we decide on buying?
The poster in question wrote:
<<Do some parents actually think that sending their kid to the "best" school in the state guarantees success in life? Are parents really that superficial? Ever heard of the old saying, those who make A's make doctor's, those who make B's make lawyers, and those make C's make millions? I know sending your kids to a good school is important but the OP sounds very pretentious. I would rather my kid have average grades and common sense rather than get A's and not have a clue with day to day life. The very fact you have to post how much your house is worth, what kind of car you drive, and saying you have to send your kid to the "best" school in MA simply says to me you're much more about surface than substance when it comes to yourself and your kids>>.
He/she struck a chord. Before we moved to MA almost 2 months ago, GREAT SCHOOL district was our main obsession. Granted, we could not pull off a Wellsley or Weston, but we were able to pull off a Lynnfield for now - renting. With the little contact that we managed to make around over these past wintery months of virtual hibernation for everybody in the area - the one mantra I kept hearing was "oh, and you could not go wrong with the school system here; it's great!".
OK. Sounded good.
Except that I have begun to get an actual taste for what such "GREAT" school systems boil down to and honestly, I don't like the taste. My son has been going to preschool in the area and while preschools are NOT schools, they do give you a sense of what kind of school environment you should expect. I will offer my opinion, as culturally biased as it may be.
The schools push hard because parents push hard because schools push hard - when NONE OF THEM should do such a thing at such young ages, period. Little friendships and free play are severely downplayed, I would say non-existent - and this is BAD, I don't care what world anyone is coming from as long as it is Planet Earth. It is a subtly, and possibly unconsciously, orchestrated system to literally steal children's childhoods, to regiment them from the start and get them on the competitive, productive line as early as possible. The area is full of anxiety. Neighbors are hardly interested in play dates (I tried but didn't happen), let alone allowing children to just go outside and be, which is exactly what they should do at this age. Mothers at preschool, playgrounds, surrounding area, etc subconsciously send anxious, even hostile vibes - even though absolutely NONE of them did anything overtly wrong to me.
But I FEEL them and I wasn't born yesterday.
At school, it's all about letters, numbers, signing own name, putting together major "art projects", and writing titles of books on long strips of construction paper. My son came back with some Valentine cards and all kids had written their names on them at almost printer level (though you could see it was kid writing).
At 4 ??????????????????????????????????????? Excuse me?
What's the use of believing in free play outside with neighborhood kids when neighborhood kids are never outside? I saw myself FORCED to jump on the bandwagon of "early academics" even though I DO NOT believe in this philosophy. But what am I going to do?
The boy is required to sign his name when he comes in to preschool every morning and he is required to write book titles for various art projects, etc. They probably all have the reading/phonics technique down - though I will bet my life that by the time they are 12, most will have stopped reading for pleasure.
My son is simply not yet interested in doing such tedious writing on worksheets at 4 (even though I provided ample opportunity for scribbling, writing, etc). His fine motor skills are not good and he is simply NOT there yet with his natural interests. He just likes to be told stories or read to, out loud. He could focus on stories for hours on end. We are a virtually no TV household, he is not even aware of any children's shows - but he just likes to play and be read to. I also can see he yearns for running outside with kids, but he has no one to run with (his sister is too young).
So I had to PUSH and FORCE academically, just to get in line.
He signs his name now (naturally, in an extremely clumsy manner) but he is clearly not interested in this type of activities. I spent a fortune on drawing and writing-related materials at Michael's - just not interested.
I cannot help but think that I did not learn to read or write until I was 8 yo (four years later than my kids are expected to accomplish such things) and somehow managed to finish the maximum level of formal education anyone could go for, at institutions with enough leaves crawling all over them. This is hardly a bragging moment as I have come to hold relatively little respect for what such institutions produce nowadays: anxious, neurotic, highly-competitive, self-absorbed, specialized over-achievers with a ton of information in their heads and zero levels of wisdom or true understanding of life.
I do not care that we now live in a techno-commercial world that requires highly specialized savant idiots. I simply think it is WRONG to push children into tedious academics at such early ages, all while depriving them of extremely important human experiences, including the chance to create special and spontaneous bonds with their little fellow humans.
No such thing in "great school districts", THAT I know by now. Naive me had thought that "great school districts" spell "wise parents". Not.
They spell neurotically competitive parents, raising glorious "mini-me"-s.
This is not just an anecdote based on my unique personal experience, but on systematic observation of what most people in such areas do, on how they behave, on how they relate to their children and what they expect of them.
I can't stop thinking of a summer day, before we moved to MA, when we took my son to a nearby park in Atlanta and he had a kite with him. This managed to a attract a bunch of Mexican kids who lived in a nearby complex of lower-income apartments. He had a blast like he'd never had before and like he is yet to have again.
They ran around like crazy, they were communicating with each other beautifully and were highly aware of one another, as opposed to enclosed in a self-absorbed bubble; it is that day that he learned what it means to take turns, to run in line, etc - even though we stepped aside and never interfered. The little Mexican kids were teaching him all kinds of stuff, yes - in English, though they also spoke Spanish, and my son even learned a few words in Spanish that day. They were sweet, respectful, very aware of one another and full of life. I had no idea where the mothers were, they were certainly not hovering over them. The kids felt real and the whole scene was darn idyllic, reminding me of my own childhood.
I also recently realized that the "lack of diversity" thing can actually be an issue for us, far beyond ridiculous political correctness that I NEVER cared about anyway.
We are white as white can get (husband Scott-Irish Southerner, myself Eastern European), but after 11 years in Atlanta, it was kind of funny to realize that I miss...well....yeah, the little Mexican kids nearby, or other signs of more relaxed and personal cultures (including my warm as bread-out-of-the oven South-American neighbor with her Persian husband) and quite a few others.
There is clearly no racial diversity in Lynnfield which would be just fine by me (we are white, after all) - if we could also spot some like-minded people, not just "skin-minded"! Skin is the last thing I care about, whether diverse or not.
In any case, if our experience remains at the level it is now, we would clearly not want to be in Lynnfield or any other place with such neurotically "GREAT" school districts. But then where?
Are school districts at a 7-8 level more likely to contain a more "normal", and humane population - the kind that allows kids to develop normally, without necessarily making a mess of academics? Is it even possible to stay a human and still do well in school? Where would such towns be in MA?
We are now thinking of Melrose, Wakefield, perhaps North Andover?
...From what I understand, they are considered "decent" school districts and I am thinking that "decent" might be our idea of an overall healthy environment to raise kids in.
We've moved a few times and yes, we do check out 'racial profiles' because sadly the schools with the most minorities are usually lacking.
But you are right about lack of diversity. You do suffer if there are only White people in your life. Anyone who is not bland and 'boring' here in Vermont gets looked at like they have five heads. Dare you talk loud or 'gesture' and you get some strange looks.
We look at 'great schools' because our child is in Special Ed for some classes and we worry he will be lost in a bad school.
Like finding the perfect spot to live, the right school is the one that works hardest for your child, not necessarily the one 'rated a 10' at Best Schools.
syracusa, you've been in Lynnfield for 2 months, let us know how you feel after a year, or even better, after 3 or 4 years.
I won't make excuses for parents in this town or any other town for that matter. I'm not sure your vision of such a simple society exists anymore. I'm not even really sure I know what it is you are looking for.
I pointed out in one of your posts last year prior to making the move that I did not understand why you would choose an expensive town like a Wellesley or a Lynnfield when your children were still several years away from attending the public schools anyways. Why pay for those services now if you are not using them?
I'm not so sure that your experiences of the past 3 months are a true litmus test of what your experiences would be in this town in the future. My kids did not go to pre-school here but they have been in the public schools for over 4 years and my wife has worked in the town for over 15 years. I think the kids and families here are just like the previous town we lived in and pretty much the same as every other town I am familiar with. There will always be down to earth people just like there will always be those who are trying to keep up with the Joneses.
Public school curriculums in Massachusetts are all guided by a statewide farmework that is geared to preparing students to pass the MCAS test, which is given at different points along the student's educational career. In theory, all Massachusetts school systems are the same because they are all guided by the same framework.
The perception of "GREAT" schools is made mostly by the residents of a particular community and the often nebulous rankings or predictions of Boston magazine or some Internet source. My wife the teacher will tell you there are "GREAT" teachers in every school in every town, just as there are "GREAT" students in every school in every town.
Melrose and Wakefield have more than twice the population of Lynnfield but in terms of racial diversity, all 3 towns are virtually identical from a percentage basis. North Andover does have a slightly higher percentage of Hispanic and Asian residents. However, I don't think its racial diversity you are really searching for.
But you are right about lack of diversity. You do suffer if there are only White people in your life.
Well, come think of it, this statement could easily be interpreted as sweeping, or even offensive nowadays (not that I interpret it this way, but I know many would because that's the done thing nowadays). But really, the trouble itself is not with "whiteness", but with what KIND of "whiteness" we are talking about. It's the culture itself. I grew up surrounded by whites 100% and it was beyond fine (different time, different place, different system). But it was a vastly different culture than the one I am talking about here. After all, there is amazing diversity of culture and character within the Caucasian population too.
But once this "whiteness" gets hooked on cancerous competitiveness and the "personal success" drug, then it gets ugly, as far as I am concerned. I knew intellectually that this type of competitive, anxious and implicitly hostile attitude is highly prevalent among white, middle and upper-middle class Americans, but it's one thing to know something intellectually, and another to experience it live. It is certainly not pretty and it certainly does NOT serve our poor kids, be they in the most phenomenal school districts the Universe could imagine.
Just the other day I met at church (serving my own ethnic/immigrant community) one of these highly anxious middle-class mothers who kept talking about how they make the huge sacrifice of a 1 hour and a half commute each way, so that the kids will be in their FANTASTIC school district (Acton). When you add the "middle-class first generation immigrant" motive to the already competitive white American mix ("I came here to succeed big!!"), the subject becomes even more "Catholic than the Pope" and I just plain get sick to my stomach. We were sitting in the "kids room" at the church. She was constantly hovering over her 4yo, placing crayons in her hands, making her draw and color, high-stepping around and sort of bossing around the other kids (yes, the mother). Then she took her girl in a nearby room to read to her. Instead of encouraging her to play with the few kids in that room, since they were there anyway, she separated her and plunged her back into 'academic' activity, Lord forbid should she have one moment in which she was not "learning" something.
A similar example I witnessed a couple of weeks ago when I went with my son for a sort of "audition" with a kid modeling/acting agency, the first time we ever did something like this. I hesitated a lot as I am not a big fan of the entire aura surrounding the industry. But after being told one million times about my son's highly symmetrical, pleasant facial features, I had to give in thinking that why not, maybe he can even "make a buck or two this way". . Heck, Lord knows we could use any extra penny in this darn expensive state. If not, no sleep lost over this.
I was bracing myself because I knew I was going to see what I didn't care to see. So here SHE was: the quintessential anxious middle to middle-upper class mother, full of trepidations over how successful her children will end up, in all sorts of ways. Blond, Botoxed, floating in an air of self-importance, drilling her 4 yo on letters, dictating to her while she was executing letters on a piece of paper. Later, we all found out that her other kid, a 6 yo boy, lists chess as his "favorite game" and that he was already "beating his father at it". Oh, Glory.
Of course, there was not one single word exchanged among mothers waiting for the meeting with the agency lady (about 6 of us). All of them were uptightly keeping to themselves, barely tolerating the presence of the others: "THE ENEMY".
I had seen plenty of such manifestations of petty competitiveness in Atlanta (in middle to upper-middle class environments, of course) but I had no idea MA might actually be worse in this respect. I thought I was going into a wiser, more enlightened, more aware state with people "above" such petty competitiveness. I am afraid was wrong.
So the question remains: where is that "happy medium" you were talking about?
Tips on specific towns appreciated.
I'm not sure your vision of such a simple society exists anymore.
I am not either. And if this is completely gone, our kids are all scr-ed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gf2020
I pointed out in one of your posts last year prior to making the move that I did not understand why you would choose an expensive town like a Wellesley or a Lynnfield
Well, Wellsley is not the same as Lynnfield. We simply wanted a good school district because:
1) we may end up renting quite a few years and my kids WILL start school in the meantime.
2) we were hoping that "good school district" was also a code for open-minded, wise families raising children in very healthy ways. We were wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gf2020
I'm not so sure that your experiences of the past 3 months are a true litmus test of what your experiences would be in this town in the future.
They may not be and I pray you are right. However, my instincts tell me otherwise. I have attempted to get in touch with mothers at preschool, in a more personal way, with neighbors with kids, etc. I have been at PTO meetings. I have talked to people at playgrounds. There are clear vibes that people will be nice and polite but that NO ONE is in the mood to get together/close to anyone, not even for the sake of the kids. I cannot speak for old local cliques (mothers born and raised here, who went to the same preschool their kids are going now; I have nevertheless followed their conversations with one another and that is not something I would fancy being a part of, intimately speaking).
Everything is organized, planned out and impersonal. Everybody obssesses over kids' performance. I did not get good vibes. It is all there is. Hope you are right and hope we will eventually find paradise here, but I do not see it coming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gf2020
I think the kids and families here are just like the previous town we lived in and pretty much the same as every other town I am familiar with. There will always be down to earth people just like there will always be those who are trying to keep up with the Joneses.
Looking forward to meeting the "down-to-Earth" in the area. I am afraid though that if they are down to "this Earth", meaning the extremely competitive environment virtually all middle-classes are forced into, this might not solve much; which gets us back to the "world you suspect no longer exists". I am just sick of trying to adapt to something that I sincerely believe will be harmful for my children's long-term well-being.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gf2020
Melrose and Wakefield have more than twice the population of Lynnfield but in terms of racial diversity, all 3 towns are virtually identical from a percentage basis. North Andover does have a slightly higher percentage of Hispanic and Asian residents. However, I don't think its racial diversity you are really searching for.
Thanks for the town tips - and yes, you are right, it is NOT racial diversity I am really looking for. It is diversity in mindset. I am looking for a healthy mindset with enough guts to admit that pre-schoolers, and even older kids, should spend a good chuck of their non-school time establishing friendships naturally, interacting with other little humans in a meaningful way, playing outside in nature and just NOT OBSESSING over their brilliant future at least 2 hours a day.
I had seen plenty of such manifestations of petty competitiveness in Atlanta (in middle to upper-middle class environments, of course) but I had no idea MA might actually be worse in this respect. I thought I was going into a wiser, more enlightened, more aware state with people "above" such petty competitiveness. I am afraid was wrong.
So the question remains: where is that "happy medium" you were talking about?
Tips on specific towns appreciated.
I think the best suggestion would be for you to revisit some of the original threads you started here, and give a second thought to all the towns that people suggested that you immediately discounted because you assumed that only "top-of-the-line" schools were good enough. I mean this in a completely non-snide way--but I think you disregarded quite a bit of good advice.
What you describe above is absolutely foreign to me. I've never encountered anything like this in my parent social circles that span towns like Cambridge, Arlington, and Medford. That's the kind of thing that happens in the farther-flung 'burbs that are distinctively bland and NOT like Boston in nature. If you have your heart set on the "wiser, more enlightened, more aware", you're safer closer to downtown.
Incidentally, my husband works for an education consulting company, and is constantly reminded by the experts he works with that higher MCAS scores (much of what makes up school "ratings" around here) are not associated with higher success, more graduates, or more kids going on to higher education; the only association is with higher real estate values.
Lynnfield, at least on paper, appears to be a middle to upper middle class town so I don't know if snobbery would be a factor. Certain towns do have the reputation of being somewhat "uptight" (can't think of a better word). Why that is, I don't know - it's not necessarily income. They are all different.
As far as the preschool, I can only go by my own experience when I tell you that most of them do teach them letters, and simple writing and of course, crafts. They should be doing other things as well, like recess, free play in the classroom, music, field trips, etc. Has your son made any friends at all in his new school?
Where you planning to have your son go to kindergarten in the fall? If he will be 5 by Sept. 1, he would be eligible, but many of the school systems here discourage sending boys if their fine motor skills aren't that great. There is a screening process.
Another thing, does Lynnfield have full day kindergarten, or do you have a choice?
I'm really sorry you are having such problems in your new state.
I think the best suggestion would be for you to revisit some of the original threads you started here, and give a second thought to all the towns that people suggested that you immediately discounted because you assumed that only "top-of-the-line" schools were good enough. I mean this in a completely non-snide way--but I think you disregarded quite a bit of good advice.
What you describe above is absolutely foreign to me. I've never encountered anything like this in my parent social circles that span towns like Cambridge, Arlington, and Medford. That's the kind of thing that happens in the farther-flung 'burbs that are distinctively bland and NOT like Boston in nature. If you have your heart set on the "wiser, more enlightened, more aware", you're safer closer to downtown.
Incidentally, my husband works for an education consulting company, and is constantly reminded by the experts he works with that higher MCAS scores (much of what makes up school "ratings" around here) are not associated with higher success, more graduates, or more kids going on to higher education; the only association is with higher real estate values.
redpanda,
Here's what the trouble really was: we did a search from a distance (GA), in the middle of the winter. That didn't give us much leverage. We ended up with very few options at the end and time was pressing. We HAD TO make a choice from whatever was available at the time (not much), within reasonable parameters.
We also realized we simply cannot afford anything decent in better areas close to downtown, such as Arlington and Cambridge. What we saw was out of the question in terms of dwelling. We also wanted to be relatively close to husband's workplace. Lynnfield was very close, it had "good schools" and we found something available. So Lynnfield it was.
I can see what you are saying and it is possible that areas closer to downtown may have more of what I am looking for. I do sense a lot of stale provincialism and ultimately mediocrity in the obsessively competitive spirit surrounding the area we're in and that is unnecessarily spilling over onto innocent "mini-me-s".
Oh, well. We are just renting - and we have no idea where and whether we will buy. I guess this is part of learning. Thanks.
Broadly speaking, Preschool has become Kindergarten, Kindergarten has become first grade. Both my boys (11 and 6) struggled in kindergarten because they were expected to sit and be quiet and do all sorts of things that 15 years ago we would NEVER expect from a 5 year old.
This was true in other states, and in speaking with many of my friends around the US, it is common everywhere. I can't speak for your personal struggle with the schools but I can offer one word of advice....
Hold your son out of Kindergarten until he is 6 or very nearly 6 years old (I don't know his birth date)
that extra year of growing up time and maturity will give him the mental social, and physical abilities required of most any kindergarten you send him to. It is perfectly legal to do so, and will make the transition to school so much smoother.
As for preschools have you looked into finding home care somewhere? A stay at home mom with kids around your sons age who will watch him during the day?
Lynnfield, at least on paper, appears to be a middle to upper middle class town so I don't know if snobbery would be a factor. Certain towns do have the reputation of being somewhat "uptight" (can't think of a better word). Why that is, I don't know - it's not necessarily income. They are all different.
As far as the preschool, I can only go by my own experience when I tell you that most of them do teach them letters, and simple writing and of course, crafts. They should be doing other things as well, like recess, free play in the classroom, music, field trips, etc. Has your son made any friends at all in his new school?
Where you planning to have your son go to kindergarten in the fall? If he will be 5 by Sept. 1, he would be eligible, but many of the school systems here discourage sending boys if their fine motor skills aren't that great. There is a screening process.
Another thing, does Lynnfield have full day kindergarten, or do you have a choice?
I'm really sorry you are having such problems in your new state.
Hi Casey,
The kid knows his letters fine. He is fluently bilingual and sure as heck not a "slow" kid. Actually, yeah - he's "slow" in fine motor skills. He's always been as he was born with congenital torticolis which at least partially affected his sense of balance, etc.
He writes his name now but that's because I pushed and he had no choice.
But this is not the point. My point is that there SHOULD NOT be such emphasis on such preoccupations so early on. I just resent being dragged into this techno-commercial machine that won't spare even 3-4 yo-s. But what am I saying - babies themselves are all drowning in a sea of letters, wherever they turn. I really think 4 yo-s should have no business trying to write "book titles".
Yes, he does other things at preschool too but I am not there every minute to see what exactly is being done and what is emphasized, and how. Has he made friends? I guess so. He talks about x,y and z - but then again, I am not there to WATCH the interaction. After all, they get to see their friends at preschool for 3 hours, when the parents are not there - but they cannot set up their own play dates for free play. When I attempted a few of those moves, they failed. The mothers "sweetly" responded that that would be such a great thing to do "sometimes, but it never materialized. I mean, I don't think you need to wait for a half a year so the kid can have a darn play date set up. But I am not going to go back with repeated requests for play dates either, if those moms didn't act on the first one.
He won't go to kindergarden in the fall as he will miss the deadline by 10 days. It is obviously OK by us, setting aside the additional expense.
As for having a hard time, we are not shocked as we had anticipated the difficulties in adjustment overall. I am just not that very pleasantly surprised with what we found in the neighborhood/school environment.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. Heck, Lord knows we could use any extra penny in this darn expensive state. If not, no sleep lost over this. 
