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Location: Lots of sun and palm trees with occasional hurricane :)
8,293 posts, read 16,156,581 times
Reputation: 7018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar Beach
If they have a Cuban passport, how could they not have another country's citizenship? I don't recall that Cuba routinely pulled the citizenship of exiles. Why couldn't a person travel on a Cuban passport, still getting the requisite visas where needed, while residing in the U.S.? I know someone who was a permanent resident of the U.S. and had only an Iranian passport, and that's what he did. He traveled all over the world that way. (It was a pain to go through customs and immigration on an Iranian passport though; he has since become an American citizen. Iran doesn't recognize naturalization by another country, though, so he still needs his Iranian passport to go back there.)
I think there's a misunderstanding. I was referring to Pixie Dust's post (#74) where she says that she thought anybody who left Cuba prior to 1970 had their cuban passport voided/nulled.
so if you have no other passport..........what do you do to travel around?
it's not the same as your friend who had a green card but Iranian passport. He at least had A passport.
In my example, person would have NO passport because Cuba would have nulled the Cuban one and person is not a citizen of anywhere else to be able to get a passport. You'll always be Cuban (in this example) but without a passport then?
I think there's a misunderstanding. I was referring to Pixie Dust's post (#74) where she says that she thought anybody who left Cuba prior to 1970 had their cuban passport voided/nulled.
so if you have no other passport..........what do you do to travel around?
it's not the same as your friend who had a green card but Iranian passport. He at least had A passport.
In my example, person would have NO passport because Cuba would have nulled the Cuban one and person is not a citizen of anywhere else to be able to get a passport. You'll always be Cuban (in this example) but without a passport then?
Capiche?
Gotcha. Somehow my tired eyeballs failed to parse the word "null".
I couldn't find anything about that specifically, but I read that Cuban authorities stamped some passports of airlift refugees nulo, so they would not be able to return. It doesn't mean that their citizenship is voided; just their passport. I'm not sure how Cuban citizenship would benefit a Cuban refugee who could not legally return to his country.
In any case, the refugees were fast-tracked to a green card; Cuban refugees are automatically eligible, right of the bat. I presume they'd have to wait until they could get an American passport before they could travel internationally.
You really should look up Operation Mongoose. It was the biggest CIA operation prior to VietNam.
Your other stuff is just Internet bravado.
It's easy to sound tough and say this or that others should have done.
I do agree either group (Castro or those in Miami in the 60s) was a no-win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar Beach
I have great respect for those who died fighting fascism in Spain during the time of Franco. I'm sure you do as well. At least they tried. You can't win every battle, but at least they fought for what was right.
This has nothing to do with Cuban bashing. As far as I'm concerned, Cubans have done very well in Miami, and more power to them
agreed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar Beach
(plus or minus the Florida presidential election in 2000).
What? You blaming me for the dimwit we have as President?!!
I did not vote for him.
And the fiasco with the ballots was primarily in Palm Beach by gringo retirees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar Beach
I'm talking only about Cuba itself. For whatever reason, Cubans thing that Cuba should be a huge part of American foreign policy. That makes little sense.
Sorry, but that really is your ignorance, not said to be offensive, it's just that really you should read.
Cuba has always been important for Geographical reasons. During the Cold War and Cuban missile crisis Cuba was very important.
I would agree with you that Cuba has always been a pain in the (posterior) to the US.
Location: Lots of sun and palm trees with occasional hurricane :)
8,293 posts, read 16,156,581 times
Reputation: 7018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar Beach
Gotcha. Somehow my tired eyeballs failed to parse the word "null".
I couldn't find anything about that specifically, but I read that Cuban authorities stamped some passports of airlift refugees nulo, so they would not be able to return. It doesn't mean that their citizenship is voided; just their passport. I'm not sure how Cuban citizenship would benefit a Cuban refugee who could not legally return to his country.
In any case, the refugees were fast-tracked to a green card; Cuban refugees are automatically eligible, right of the bat. I presume they'd have to wait until they could get an American passport before they could travel internationally.
What if they never become an American citizen? Must obtain re-entry permits every time they want to travel?
Even the Bahamas now requires a passport - any passport, even on a cruise from Miami. However, the more people you talk to and the more you read the rules, the less anybody knows what to do.
What if they never become an American citizen? Must obtain re-entry permits every time they want to travel?
Even the Bahamas now requires a passport - any passport, even on a cruise from Miami. However, the more people you talk to and the more you read the rules, the less anybody knows what to do.
You know, there are a lot of American citizens who don't have passports (although more do now since you need one to go pretty much anywhere). My parents and grandparents (Americans) lived their entire lives without one. There's no law that says you have to travel internationally.
Where it gets really dicey is if you're convicted of a crime, but your home country won't take you back (as Cuba would not). You wind up in indefinite limbo in an American prison even after you've served out your sentence, unless another country accepts you.
As far as I know, if you're a U.S. citizen, you'll need a U.S. passport to get back into the U.S by this spring. More info on that here: DHS: Frequently Asked Questions: New Border Crossing Procedures Beginning January 31, 2008 (http://www.dhs.gov/xnews/releases/pr_1200677666905.shtm - broken link) The last paragraph contains some scary stuff.
If you have a green card but no valid passport, then you do have a problem. Besides difficulties being able to enter another country, you might have a real problem reentering the U.S. You will probably have to wait until your U.S. citizenship comes through and apply for a passport right away if you plan to travel. There's some vague information here: http://www.internationalcenter.umich...prvisa/#travel
What do Cuban born U.S. citizens who return to Cuba for a visit use when entering Cuba? Their American passport? I assume they're not keeping their Cuban passport up to date.
Location: Lots of sun and palm trees with occasional hurricane :)
8,293 posts, read 16,156,581 times
Reputation: 7018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar Beach
You know, there are a lot of American citizens who don't have passports (although more do now since you need one to go pretty much anywhere). My parents and grandparents (Americans) lived their entire lives without one. There's no law that says you have to travel internationally.
Where it gets really dicey is if you're convicted of a crime, but your home country won't take you back (as Cuba would not). You wind up in indefinite limbo in an American prison even after you've served out your sentence, unless another country accepts you.
As far as I know, if you're a U.S. citizen, you'll need a U.S. passport to get back into the U.S by this spring. More info on that here: DHS: Frequently Asked Questions: New Border Crossing Procedures Beginning January 31, 2008 (http://www.dhs.gov/xnews/releases/pr_1200677666905.shtm - broken link) The last paragraph contains some scary stuff.
If you have a green card but no valid passport, then you do have a problem. Besides difficulties being able to enter another country, you might have a real problem reentering the U.S. You will probably have to wait until your U.S. citizenship comes through and apply for a passport right away if you plan to travel. There's some vague information here: Permanent Residency Immigrant Visa (Green Card) | International Center | University of Michigan
What do Cuban born U.S. citizens who return to Cuba for a visit use when entering Cuba? Their American passport? I assume they're not keeping their Cuban passport up to date.
Yeah I pretty much know the rules and I have my USA passport, etc.
My question was regarding the Cubans with a "nulled" passsport and nothing else except maybe a green card.
That's the thing.......if you want to go to Cuba, even through a 3rd country, AND you were born in Cuba, I was told you HAVE TO renew the Cuban passport or obtain one and you have to enter Cuba with the Cuban passport. You get back to the US with the American, or with a re-entry permit. Supposedly you are coming from Mexico or Canada or Bahamas, not from Cuba (because Americans can't go there legally).
So...if my Cuban passport is pre 1970, which it is, and I want to go Cuba, I'd have to renew it and it costs a pretty penny. Mine does not say "nulo" or anything of the sort.
Think I'll call the embassy in DC one of these days. Now I'm curious.
I think Cougar is a wise person, but, you will not make him think in a different way. The discussion both of you are involved has not end, believe me. When I started at FIU people asked me the same question, Why dont fight against Castro? and like I said, there was not end. However, I do not know a modern totalitariam dictatorship overthrown by the people.
Last edited by Thomas Jefferson; 01-05-2009 at 11:32 PM..
I think Cougar is a wise person, but, you will not make him think in a different way. The discussion both of you are involved has not end, believe me. When I started at FIU people asked me the same question, Why dont fight against Castro? and like I said, there was not end. However, I do not know a modern totalitariam dictatorship overthrown by the people.
I won't think differently if all you have to offer is "you will not make him think in a different way", rather than a refutation of my specific points. If you can make your case, then I will think differently.
> I do not know a modern totalitariam dictatorship overthrown by the people.
Then let me help you.
Orange revolution in Ukraine (previously mentioned)
Velvet Revolution in the Czech Republic (previously mentioned)
Cuba's rebellion against Spain (over 100 years ago; beyond your time frame?)
Castro's overthrow of Batista (his first attempt in 1953 was a joke; he persevered, and got help from Guevara)
Sandinista overthrow of Somoza dynasty (friends of the U.S.) in Nicaragua
Argentina, Colombia, Venezuela, several times
etc.
I trust that you agree that Batista was a dictator. And say what you want about Guevara, he did inspire a lot of people to get involved and fight.
Like I said, not every overthrow attempt succeeds, but if you don't try, you're guaranteed to fail.
Quote:
These are not isolated events," says Gene Sharp, a retired Harvard professor and director of the Boston-based Einstein Institute, who has studied and published techniques for how to bring down dictators. Sharp's book "From Dictatorship to Democracy" was used as a virtual blueprint by the Serbian pro-democracy group Otpor (Resistance) in resisting Milosevic this past year. "People realize that dictators can be defeated."
Maybe we should carpet bomb Cuba with a Spanish version of that book.
A big part of the problem goes back to how Spain administered Cuba (somewhat differently from the way Britian ran its colonies), where Spain did not let locals participate in the running of the local government in a non-trivial way. After the Spanish-American War, when Cuba was on its own, they kind of made a mess of governing, and the U.S. was more concerned with its own business interests in Cuba than anything else, so Cuba had a history of floundering around with poor governments.
> I do not know a modern totalitariam dictatorship overthrown by the people.
This is a very interesting (and kind of long) article by Roger Cohen, pubished in the New York Times Magazine a month ago, about the current state of affairs in Cuba: The End of Revolutionhttp://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/07/ma.../07cuba-t.html
JBravo. Since your well versed in the Cuban culture of sorts, I would like to ask you a question?
When Cubans wash ashore or get here by other means. They immediately declared political asylum and are declared "Political Asylees" correct? OK. When you are given political asylum it is because you have officially declared, your in fear of violence or death from your country, against you and/or your family.
So then why do most Cubans return to the island of Cuba right after they are granted U.S.citizenship?
And please dont give me their families as an excuse.
If these political asylum cases were real, no political asylee (or US citizen afterthefact) would EVER step one foot in Cuba for anything.
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