[Ivorytickler]

The list of worst places to find a job that is:

MSN Careers - 15 Worst States to Find Work - Career Advice Article

I'm so tired of being un and underemployed. I wish I was in position to just leave. With dual masters degrees in chemical engineering and seceondary education and certification in chemistry/physics and math, you'd think I could find a job that actually pays my bills. All I can find are low paying jobs in charter schools with no future to them. This sucks.

That was my whine for the day. Thanks for listening.

[zthatzmanz28]

Not to sound insulting, but welcome to my world of education. Want to create a few more charter schools?

That is what happens when schools are allowed to go for PROFITS...

How many teachers at a charter school are really vested?

Oh..sorry...as for your situation I truly emphasize with you. One would think with experience and education employment would be less dramatic.

Unfortunately it is all about the profit and college kids work for less..

Remember W. Edward Demings's White Papers??

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28

Not to sound insulting, but welcome to my world of education. Want to create a few more charter schools?

That is what happens when schools are allowed to go for PROFITS...

How many teachers at a charter school are really vested?

Oh..sorry...as for your situation I truly emphasize with you. One would think with experience and education employment would be less dramatic.

Unfortunately it is all about the profit and college kids work for less..

Remember W. Edward Demings's White Papers??

Teachers at charter schools don't vest. Unfortunately, parents don't care how long their child's teacher has been around so charters treat teachers like a cheap easily replacable commodity.

I would love to see more charters created. More compitition means more schools vying for my services. My chances of getting into a district are slim and none but if enough charter parents want experienced teachers, they'll have to start paying us to keep us. I don't expect to make the kind of wages that union teachers make as that's part of our problem with education. I just want to get to livable wage. Seems it's one extreme of another here. It's $34K with a two masters degrees and no future raises (literally NO RAISES other than a meager "COL" raise that doesn't cover inflation) or starting at $43K with a stepped wage scale that ends at $85K. I'd be happy with something in the middle.

So if you know of any charters hiring teachers at a decent wage that actually give raises, please post their wherabouts. I have a masters in chemical engineering, a master of arts in teaching and certs in math (EX), Physics (DE) and Chemistry (DC). I'm looking for something that will allow me to get to a wage in the mid 50's some day. Say in 5-7 years. I don't really care if I make more than that. I didn't go into teaching to get rich. I just want a fair wage. The charter I'm with tops at $34K. The only raises I'll ever get will be state increases which won't even cover inflation. It's all or nothing. Get into a union district and hit the lotto or starve. What we need is something in the middle.

I'm not familiar with Deming's white pages. Care to elaborate?

[Coldjensens]

THe problem for schools is simple, but extremely difficult to address. Costs keep going up and up while funds are being cut. Retirement and medical benefits are wiping out the budgets for many districts. Costs for energy, supplies, insurance, and other oprating expenses keep increasing. However State funding is being decreased and local funding from Millages decrease as property values drop. THe only way a school can stay afloat is to continually grow in order to get more state funding, or to cut costs like mad.

We live in a good school disctrict. The population is predominately middle to upper millde class (with a few very poor or extremely wealthy types on either end). They have cut all kinds of programs. they have cut way back on things like cleaning (recently had a flu epidemic that was blamed on the fact that the desks and tables no longer get cleaned.). However they are still losing ground. The number of students is decreasing and the statefunding decreases with it. They have not laid off any teachers yet, but they have simply not replaced some teachers who retired, or replaced them with part time teachers.

Odd thing is that they cannot fund operating costs, but they have money for building improvements. They just got a grant that paid for a bunch of large screen plasma T.V.s (that are only used by the administrators and clerical staff). At the same time, many of the classes are taught with online books rather than paper books (the kids hate the online books). Classes like life skills are being cut fromt he cirriculum, while the band and sports teams are expanding. It seems so sensless sometimes. It is all about the source of funding. Funds can only be used for certain things, so some funds just sit there not needed while programs are cut to meet operating expenses.

I am told that several disctrics are either considering or implementing plans to give bonuses to older teachers to retire now so that they can be replaced with younger/cheaper teachers. I think that the plan is to increase the pay less rapidly and perhaps cap the salary earlier. This may prove to be a good plan. I am told that our district tops at around $100K, but I do not see vastly superior teachers compared to other districts where we have lived. Every school that we have had our kids in have had great, mediochre and terrible teachers. I do not see a big difference between teachers who are paid $40,000 vs. teachers who are paid $100,000. There are great teachers and terrible teachers in each group. The whole compensation system does not make sense.

I am told that a lot of districts are trying to hire part time teachers to avoid paying benefits. This might be workable for teachers who have spouses whose employment provides insurance coverage for the family.

It is my understanding that if you already have an advanced degree, you have very little liklihood of being hired. Most districts seem to prefer to hire young teachers and then pay for them to get advanced degrees while they are teaching. That does nto make a lot of sense ot me, but I think that union rules have something to do with it (teachers who already have advanced degrees have to be paid a lot more). My wife was a substitute teacher for a while, and several districts told her that if she would get her certification, they would hire her. However they all told her not to get an advance degree.

AS a parent, I can tell you that it matters much less to me how long a teacher has been teaching than it does how good they are. I see no relantionship between years of teaching and abilities. Obviously an expiernced teacher might be more polished, but Our kids have had a lot of great teachers who were very young and loads of experienced teachers who were terrible (many of them burned out). Through the years and due to several school changes our five kids have had well over 100 different teachers (keeping in mind that from Jr. High on they have 6 or more teachers each semester). Generally, their best teachers have consistently been younger newer teachers with a few exceptions. Except for one teacher who was only two years out of school, the absolute best teachers were experieinced. However considering all fo the teachers that we considered ot be great teachers, the majority of them were younger. Part of the reason for that is that they have learned hte newest teching techniques and primarily, they ar emore enthusiastic. However, we are now learning how devastating an inexperieiced, imature and underqualifeied teacher can be. The past couple of years are the only time that we have encountered such a teacher.

They need to completely change the method of retaining and compensating teachers. Some people just ar enot cut out to be teachers. It should not require four or five years and hundreds of messed up kids to figure this out and get rid of the bad teachrs. Bad teachers with more experience should not be paid more than better teachers with less experience.

If there was a school with all good teachers, I would gladly find a way to pay whatever the cost of tuition was (within reason) or pay more taxes or whatever was necessary. However all schools seem to have a mix of great, terrible and mediochre teachers. It does no matter whether they are private, public or charter. Although private schools seem to have better ability to get rid of terrible teachers.

I agree that teachers are underpaid and that almost all schools are over administrated with overpaid admiinstrators given the job that they do. Public schools have the biggest problem with overadministraiotn. However I do not agree withthe current compensation system.

Drifting back to the topic. If the practice of offering incentives for early retirmenet catches on, then there should be a lot more jobs opening up for teachers. Howevr most districts will be looking for younger cheaper teachers (good news if you are a young teacher). The teachers in the middle range are likely to get the short end of the stick.

[Ivorytickler]

"Odd thing is that they cannot fund operating costs, but they have money for building improvements."

You're talking two different pots here and Prop A doesn't allow mixing of fuds. Operating budget comes from the state. Money for building improvements is local. This is why charters have so much less to work with. No local monies for buildings. They have to make do with only the money that comes from the state. Just wanted to clear that up. My district is laying off teacher but just spent something like 7 million on astroturf for the four football fields in the district and put in new tracks (not sure what they're called but they're cushioned, really nice to walk/run on). There is money for buildings but not for teachers because the money comes out of different pots.

Local taxes can be raised for buildnig improvements but can't be used to pay a teacher's salary. Where I am, a top paid teacher makes $85K making it expensive to keep them. IMO, top teacher salaries need to drop to something in the high 50's/low 60's so districts can afford to hire teachers but that will not happen with the union. Which leaves the only option for new teachers, low paying charters until there are enough charters that they have to start competing for teachers. I'm really hoping they open more. We need competition to help increase wages for charter teachers. Right now there's none as you can't get into a union district because all they can do is eliminate teacher positions to cut costs and there aren't enough charters that they have to compete for teachers.

[leaving513forever]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

The list of worst places to find a job that is:

MSN Careers - 15 Worst States to Find Work - Career Advice Article

I'm so tired of being un and underemployed. I wish I was in position to just leave. With dual masters degrees in chemical engineering and seceondary education and certification in chemistry/physics and math, you'd think I could find a job that actually pays my bills. All I can find are low paying jobs in charter schools with no future to them. This sucks.

That was my whine for the day. Thanks for listening.

Not surprised AT ALL to see Ohio on that list

[MittenDweller82]

Some interesting stuff about Pontiac:
In Economic Vise, Pontiac Struggles - The New York Times

[Southernkomfort27]

[quote=Ivorytickler;7484627]The list of worst places to find a job that is:

MSN Careers - 15 Worst States to Find Work - Career Advice Article


If you check out the related links you will also find the 22 states with unemployment rates lower than the national average of 7.2%. Wyoming tops this list at 3.4%.

[merit1sje]

Hey pleasure device, Its a shame that you have so much education behind you but no where to go. My guess is that you actually love where you're at but don't want to leave. Is this true? There are employment opportunities out there, they just aren't in our state at this time. It is hard to believe that you cannot find a job with your background. Mabey it is a sign of those things that we don't want to come....

[malamute]

Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28

That is what happens when schools are allowed to go for PROFITS...

What? They still hire? That's apparently more than be said for the public schools.