Will Minneapolis ever see 500,000 again? (St. Paul, St. Louis Park: school, quality of life, tax)

[west336]

Just because you spend doesn't mean it was efficient spending, which is what suburbia sprawl isn't. Pouring trilliions of dollars into a terrible investment is twice as bad as not spending at all.

[audadvnc]

Originally Posted by west336

Pouring trilliions of dollars into a terrible investment../

... pouring good wine after bad...

[SteelCityRising]

Why are there so many NIMBYs in the city of Minneapolis who are opposed to mixed-use transit-oriented developments that promote sustainable living? I thought Minneapolis was an educated city?

[west336]

They are protecting their personal investment, not promoting the betterhood of an entire city. So I understand this, but don't support this.

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by RestonRunner86

Why are there so many NIMBYs in the city of Minneapolis who are opposed to mixed-use transit-oriented developments that promote sustainable living? I thought Minneapolis was an educated city?

I don't know that it's any more than any other city, and I don't know if the percentage per capita is all that high. They're mostly not even against development; they just don't want it in THEIR neighborhood. Minneapolis gives a great deal of power to its formally recognized neighborhoods and their boards, though, and since it's easier to get organized against something than for it, I think those tend to be dominated by vocal and active NIMBY types who are then perceived to speak for the neighborhood as a whole.

After spending more time looking at development details from the 1970s, though, I have a better understanding where some of these people are coming from; during the 1970s in neighborhoods like the Wedge many beautiful older homes were being torn down for ugly and sprawling apartments. I am still a strong supporter of higher density and mixed-use development, but can see why people who lived through that period and seeing those changes would be preconditioned to expect the worst.

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by audadvnc

No white flight? Look at this graph of the Jordan neighborhood:

I think you missed the point. future minneapolitan said, "I don't think losing 1/3 of a city's population is a natural ebb and flow of city growth. It's more like some extreme white flight." Your chart shows a net GAIN in population in the Jordan neighborhood (despite the "white flight" from that area).

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by mnduck

That is a pretty remarkable graph. I think the point, though, is that Twin Cities suburbs in large part did not grow during the mid-twentieth century because residents were fleeing a minority influx into the central cities. The noticeable growth of the African-American population happened later- and yes, this did lead to flight, but this flight happened after much of the TC population had already suburbanized.

I think it'd also be interesting to know where the white population went. Did they go to the suburbs, or other parts of the cities? I know that N. Mpls used to have a large Jewish influence; now we think of St. Louis Park and Highland Park as the Jewish areas.

Well no, when I said changing demographics, I was talking about the downsizing of households in the TCs and the nation as a whole over the past 50 years. But that started at the end of the Baby Boom (1964). The influx of minority residents didn't take place here until the early 1980s.

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by Kid Cann

Wow, same thing for me too. My parents built a home in St. Michael in the mid-90's. Now with both their sons out of college, they are thinking about moving into one of cities of MPLS or STP (or St. Anthony apparently) (smaller yard, more to do). Crazy.

Yeah, we are lovin' it here in Highland Park as we watch empty nesters moving in from the burbs to be closer to work and amenities. It can only be good for our home values here in the city.

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by mnduck

That is a pretty remarkable graph. I think the point, though, is that Twin Cities suburbs in large part did not grow during the mid-twentieth century because residents were fleeing a minority influx into the central cities. The noticeable growth of the African-American population happened later- and yes, this did lead to flight, but this flight happened after much of the TC population had already suburbanized.

I think it'd also be interesting to know where the white population went. Did they go to the suburbs, or other parts of the cities? I know that N. Mpls used to have a large Jewish influence; now we think of St. Louis Park and Highland Park as the Jewish areas.

As I believe I noted out in an earlier post on this thread (don't know- might have been another thread)- there was white flight in the 60s leading up to and after the 67 riots on the northside, particularly notable in the Jewish community but I'm sure there were plenty of other whites fleeing as well. The Willard Homewood's historical roots are that of a predominantly Jewish neighborhood, and you will find that many of those families you reference in St. Louis Park (and Golden Valley and other West Metro suburban areas) have family ties/roots to the Northside- see graphs below from the same city website showing that there was already a well-established predominantly black population in the Willard-Hay and Near-North neighborhoods in 1980. Of note- I recently heard a member of a prominent Jewish family here in the metro give a speech on his family's Northside roots and successive flight to the suburbs, but then went on to make the statement "but we're starting to come back". I also don't know how many times I've met baby boomers from St. Louis Park at a wedding or other function that, upon hearing of our Northside address, proceed to tell me about their family's history on the Northside or the northside intersection of the home they grew up in.

[uptown_urbanist]

My grandparents both lived in the northside; no one in the extended family still lives there, but when they did start moving out it was to a variety of places: nearby suburbs like New Hope, Medicine Lake, and Robbinsdale, other Minneapolis neighborhoods (including Uptown, which is why my parents ended up moving there; they were familiar with it from visiting family), and Richfield.

Uptown also had a fairly large (well, for Minneapolis) Jewish population. In Uptown's case, the primary movement out seemed to be towards Minnetonka. The Adath Jeshurun synagogue moved out to Minnetonka in the '90s; I believe Temple Israel once debated whether or not to consider a move (as so many of their members also live out that direction), but decided to remain in the city.