WWASP, Thompson Falls, Sanders County, Spring Creek Lodge, Behavior Modification camps/schools (Clinton: house, law)

[Rickers]

You had better upbringing than I ! My dad decided to run off with his Argentine boyfriend when I was five leaving my mother to go back to work leaving my two sisters and I to become latch-key kids. I had to go to school once with a belt bruise across my face, there were no questions asked. After Daddy ran off there was no discipline whatsoever. It's a wonder I'm alive healthy and a free person ! There is a God no matter what that creep Bill Maher says. I'm not really religious but I dislike that dude !

[RobertaFromMT]

My 9 year old son was sent to a "day hospital" for schooling and I believe my son when he says the staff there did things with confidence that they would be in trouble for if they could be caught doing it. The kids once there, are not viewed as a valid source of information or commentary, when they are still there, and they are punished so badly if they complain at all and are threatened against saying anything - that I don't believe they have any protection at all.

[magoomafoo]

I agree with montanahogrider. These camps are not designed to coddle these little delinquents. They are delinquents because, for the majority of them, were coddled too much by the parents in the first place. At what point in society did it become acceptable to forego responsibility? A kid robs a store for $40, beats the clerk paralyzing him and cries it's daddy's fault for spanking him. Give me a break

[onceuponatime2000]

I used to work at this facility and I never witnessed abuse only dicapline. They do take away your anything that isn't a right. A lot of the kids that we had come through there had no respect for anything including themselves! I agreed with the program and would send my child there if need be. While I worked there a group of 'students' tried to kill a co worker who was pregnant with a bee sting kit! I would say that is attempted murder and is punishable as an adult!

[georgiainwyo]

Spring Creek closed down awhile back.

[AQHA]

Where was this place?? Is there a boys home over there in Bolder? I drive by a place over there that looks like thats what it is.

[georgiainwyo]

Originally Posted by AQHA

Where was this place?? Is there a boys home over there in Bolder? I drive by a place over there that looks like thats what it is.

Spring Creek was out in the country out of Thompson Falls, in the far northwest part of the state. The place in Boulder is a different type facility for troubled kids.

[Silas Marner]

I am the parent of a child whom I reluctantly sent to "one of those" programs on the referral of what I then thought was a trustworthy friend, and actually, I believe she was, and couldn't believe the abuse that went on in the program I sent my child to. The long and short of it is Montana does not in any way regulate these programs and virtually ANYTHING (use your imagination) can be done to these kids, up there in the thick, VERY RURAL, MT forests, and no one will find out.

They are made to be so fearful of their superiors that if they speak up to their parents or anyone else they are most definitely going to be paying for it, with skin and serious emotional distress until they (as I later learned my child did) try to commit suicide there just to get relief. I have contacted virtually 15 attorneys in Montana, NONE of which will take my case. Law enforcement in that area IS TOTALLY paid for by these programs and I've spent enough time in Sanders county to know that pure evil exists up in the guise of "alternative programs" for kids, but what they really are is money-hungry (upwards of 3K-6K/mos) abuse-loving tyrants, nothing short of NAZI-ites, PEDPHILES and PEDERASTS (a well-known MONTANA state representative of all people being among them!) who will break the will of a child, and indoctrinate him/her with heinous liberal political, social and educational ideologies.

My child was ENCOURAGED to become gay, and "experiment" with sexuality while there with other children and from what I gather, with adults as well, and when I found out about it, the directors of this program completely ignored the problem at first then made it seem like it was MY fault, when the entire time I was rarely allowed phone contact with my child. According to some kids in the program, when a parent that one of the director's didn't particularly care for would call, they would either ignore the call altogether, or hand up on the child/parent conversation after just a few minutes, and then LAUGH about it or make snide remarks about the parent in question in front of the other kids. Does this sound anything like undermining parental authority to you??? How is a parent supposed to regain respect and a semblance of control when that kind of devious, underhanded behavior is going on, all in the interest of keeping the child there as long as possible so as to keep making the 3K, 4K, 5K+ a month! These people running these programs never devised a "return home" plan! Any time we, as parents, would ask about the plan for returning the child back to the home environment, we were always told that our child probably wouldn't ever be ready to return home. ????? WHAT??? How are we supposed to be getting them ready for life outside in the real world? I'm telling you, there is more going on there in those woods than ANYONE knows.

We know that all of our family letters were not delivered to my child and anything that my child wrote the family that was in anyway considered out of the scope of "safe" information about the program, was never sent on to us.

These people are vile, greedy, soulless and will answer to a much higher authority on one day and I would not want to be anywhere near when that day comes. As the Lord said "It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones." Luke 17:2.

I won't say ALL or EVERY program in Sanders County, nee in Montana state, are the same, but be on notice that I've since spoken with MANY parents and children who've been through many there, and MOST of the stories are the same, and this is because there is NO REGULATION! A state representative who makes a TON OF MONEY through his own program there is the CHAIR OF THE BOARD OF OVERSEERS of alternative programs. All there is is this board of overseers, and MOST OF THEM ARE INVOLVED IN SOME WAY MAKING MONEY IN SANDER'S COUNTY IN ALTERNATIVE PROGRAMS. Senator Trudi Schmidt says it well when she states "that's akin to the fox watching the henhouse!" She is in an excellent video called "Who's watching the kids" which lays out SOME of the issues with these programs there.

Honestly, I KNOW FIRSTHAND that there are some kids who need a real dose of reality and it should sting and probably for awhile, and I am in no way averse to tough labor and strong discipline, but when a child is distraught over the loss of his father and trying to express his distress in the mandatory group therapy and ends up saying "I'm so sick of this place I want to kill myself!!" and the SUPPOSED counselor says "Go ahead and F---ing kill yourself then and stop wasting our time!!" I would say it's the counselor who needs a bit of a reality dose from someone who knows how to knock a block off. That's either simple insanity to make a statement like that to an obviously distraught person, or more likely, cold, calculated emotional trauma just to provoke someone. These people are known for provoking these kids. It's as if they get off on trying to get them to fight or act up just so they can abuse them more with extreme treatment, including SERIOUSLY limitin food - some kids would lose upwards of 40-50 lbs in just a few months, and these weren't overweight kids. There's nothing safe, humanistic, caring or even disciplinarian in that. The dictionary defines discipline as, among others similar, "to train by instruction and excercise." Nowhere is mental or emotional abuse named in disciplined, but it sure is under "torture."

I know firsthand that parents don't make the decision lightly or in much advance time to send their children away, and I also know that some children just cannot, under any circumstances, be managed at home (mine was a serious obstinate, oppositional defiant behavior) and an alternative MUST be found before the child makes a serious mistake that may cost him his future or even he/his life, but I IMPLORE any parent considering a program to THOROUGHLY check them out with state agencies, local law enforcement and by all means, get the opinions of AS MANY OTHER PARENTS and CHILDREN who have been through the program before to help decide.

And just my opinion, but I would NEVER choose a MT program IN ANY EVENT b/c they are not regulated and in the event something serious does happen to a child there, they are not obligated to inform a parent of it AT ALL. This is why SO MANY SICK PEOPLE move to MT to start these programs, like the twisted people in two connected programs perpetrated on us and many other families. One couple moved to MT from another distant state and made a FORTUNE! They have their HUGE custom home on many acres all bought and paid for with the tears, scars and completely anhililated self esteems and confidences of many, many unfortunate children and their families, that they wrought even more distance, animosity and even downright hate into. Another director of a program was a pederast of the first order, continuously luring kids into his perverted and very dangerous web of psychobabble. In my opinion he should simply be hung until dead and if it weren't the liberal laws in this country that favors the derelicts and criminals, he would have been long ago.

My own child was vaccinated against my opposition, injured while being disciplined and I was not made aware of this injury, taken off medication just b/c the directors did not "believe" in medication and then they pitted, given a ration of food that a 4 year old couldn't subsist on for two months in winter, kept OUT OF SCHOOL on a regular basis as a measure for discipline but still expected to keep grades up to par, and many children in their program were made to go against their parents, making the children suspicious of their parents, thereby endearing or rather, imposing a necessary dependence upon themselves on behalf of the children. One child was kept out of school for several days as discipline for talking to a girl, and these particular days of school were the only ones the SAT was offered on. ????? Is this to be believed? I would NEVER have believed any of this if I hadn't experienced it for myself, or found out about it firsthand by MANY people.

I'm here to say, I visited VERY OFTEN while my child was there, (and in some cases told I COULD NOT COME AND VISIT MY CHILD) and my child was brainwashed into thinking it was better to stay there than come home even though I was ready to make homecoming arrangements every year. These types of programs CAN work,if the people behind them actually CARE about the long-term well-being and development of the child and re-establishing the fundamental relationship between the child and the family, more than the money they're making. I know of SEVERAL other parent's who've removed their kids from these programs then filed formal complaints against these two programs, and the state DOES NOTHING. BEWARE BEWARE = you may do more harm than good to your son/daughter, your family and your relationship with them.

One final note:
If you already have a child in a Montana program and have suspicions or questions or are thinking about moving him or her, I would HIGHLY suggest Mike Linderman as someone to acquaint yourself with. He has many years' experience with kids in programs and lives in the area, and has written an excellent book, "The Teen Wisperer." He is very successful in drawing kids out and getting the best out of them without inappropriate behavioral tactics. He worked at a program in Idaho but lives in MT and I believe he and his wife may have developed their own program now, but I am not sure. His advice is worth seeking, though if you find yourself already caught in a confusing, dangerous web in Sander's county.

[Mt-7]

This is so sad.
My poppy would tell me to get on that tractor and let your mind expand when my teenage angst would act up.
God bless him, I was certainly lucky.
There is a reason you have to be a certain age to go into the service.
I think time spent working in a homeless shelter, children's hospital, or animal rescue would be more appropriate.
These kids are not in touch with their compassion IMO.

[Mt-7]

Originally Posted by rickers

You had better upbringing than I ! My dad decided to run off with his Argentine boyfriend when I was five leaving my mother to go back to work leaving my two sisters and I to become latch-key kids. I had to go to school once with a belt bruise across my face, there were no questions asked. After Daddy ran off there was no discipline whatsoever. It's a wonder I'm alive healthy and a free person ! There is a God no matter what that creep Bill Maher says. I'm not really religious but I dislike that dude !

And he knows you, and loves you. He has compassion for you. God Bless you. I have sat with too many dying people to doubt that for a second. Peace be to you.