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I know this is a year old but I just saw it. I am Orthodox and I consider you a Jew and member fo the family but you are being "naughty." You should not be airing our internal problems in front of the goyim who are looking for any excuse to justify THEIR anti-semitism. If you cannot live this particular life, I couldn't do it either, BTW, you are doing the right thing by moving to a more liberal assimilated community but please don't slam your own in front of the World. We have enough enemies out there and more every day.
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Originally Posted by berryjuice4life
Ok here is the prospective of jewish person however they dont consdier me jewish and I dont do their customs..If you are looking for them to accept you FORGET IT, Unless you practice the way they do they dont care...they are nasty human beings, and for lakewood your just better off not bothering to even try and figure it out, they dont want you there so to speak, why do You think they bought Lakewood Hs????? well it will eventually be shut down as there isnt enough population to fill the school, so then what???? Until u live there culture you just wont understand....That is all I can say without being umm thrown off the board, and I love these boards so I will behave but YOu should get my drift....I am a reformed jew and celebrate my holiday but u know what it is what it is...I have my own issues with that since I was turned away and cant Bar Mitzva my son in these towns but either way it doesnt matter we are moving, but take my advice and just do what you need to do and dont look for them to make peace....
Oh puhlease!!!
These (Yes, I labeled them "these") people come to our country and they do not want anyone that is American, may it be African-American, Irish-American, Italian-American, Polish-American, Latin-American, to associate with them, nor do they want to associate with anyone else.
I am sick and tired of when people say to me that we should "understand" these people.
Did anyone ask my grandparents how they should be understood when they came from Europe to this country?
People who live close by to Lakewood have heard the stories, we have read the newspapers. People think that we are out of our minds when we tell them about how the Hassidic's treat others.
Do these people teach their children about American History?
In most cases, NO. They are like a cult.
There are Orthodox Jews in this country who have no problem mixing in with the rest of this country...and then there are the Hassidic's from Lakewood.
And BTW, RabbiJoe, I find it unreal that someone who labels himself as a "Rabbi" cannot spell Judaism or Orthodox.
You are correct, and it is done on purpose to draw out people like you. Thanks for taking the test.
You quite obviously do not know very much about Judaism, or the orthodox; however you surely have an unusually high interest in and about our people.
Firstly: It is a free country - and until you master some base and basic knowledge of our religion and heritage, I think you should only ask, instead of commenting completely ridiculous thoughts.
So we understand that it is a free country. So if it's true that the religion requires limited interaction with other "theses" or people in the common polite vernacular, then quite obviously, the religious will adhere to that. I'm sorry you are feeling bad about that. if you politely inquire of any Jewish institution, you will be treated very finely. I do suggest that by the way, so as to enhance and broaden you simplistic and needy understanding of Judaism.
Quote:
Did anyone ask my grandparents how they should be understood when they came from Europe to this country?
You left out tremendous amount of information to properly address you insult.
Firstly do you really care?
Jewish people have a tremendous concern for their family members, certainly grandparents. That care and concern is viable and electric and is so noticed by others that are not Jewish, like you. Being so, "outsiders", like you, and I will stop reminding you of that, recognize this, and so, being that they realize the concern and care generated within the Jewish community for previous generations, others extend a common courtesy and establish a care and concern to understand as well. It is something actually learned from the Jewish people.
Tell me, do you really care about your grand-parents - where they came from - the fact that they could not understand English very well when the first arrived, and struggled to establish themselves and your parents, and indirectly YOU, to be prosperous in this foreign land?
Or are you the disrespectful kind - as you seem from your post - who doesn’t care - and would like to distance himself as far as possible from those who came over in steerage?
Lets assume for a moment that your grandparents - well meaning individuals came across while still young, from lets say.... Germany.. it sounds about right for you. In any case... Let's assume that they were Catholic (now did I spell that correctly?).
O.K. - So now what’s so hard to understand about them sounds pretty much the run of the mill kind... Unless of course they were die hard Nazi’s who proclaimed on Ellis Island to LOVE Jews... but that would have had them sent either back, or to some institution!
So you should try and explain your outburst with a touch more detail and fact. Thanks.
Quote:
People who live close by to Lakewood have heard the stories, we have read the newspapers. People think that we are out of our minds when we tell them about how the Hassidic's treat others.
So let me hear some of the things you have actually witnessed.... Perhaps as I would assume you're a gossip mongler... alright so at least say that your incoherently repeat any vile story you can luster upon, and "add" your own conjured details - Read and believe what you want, but I'd like to hear your very own personal knowledge of the Jews... I doubt that you have any at all... Just a deep interest in a group you can't join... Fine!
Quote:
Do these people teach their children about American History?
In most cases, NO. They are like a cult
Faulty logic. What does knowing American history have to do with being like a cult?
Secondly, I have a degree in American history, and actually lecture Orthodox Jewish children in grade school on American History. So I a can reassure you that they do very well in American History... In fact far better then some other ethnical groups.
No. Judaism is beautiful religion.. if you would know some more about it, you would come to that independent realization on your own - if you can muster the ability of an open mind! No cult involved... Just proudly the oldest religion in history - American or otherwise!
By the way.. Since you consider yourself haughty enough to proclaim Jews as uneducated in regard to American history, perhaps you can find the answers to these to easy questions in your store houses of vast American historical knowledge!
A: Who financed the American War of Independence?
B: What is the constitutional interpretation of religious liberties?
Quote:
There are Orthodox Jews in this country who have no problem mixing in with the rest of this country...and then there are the Hassidic's from Lakewood.
Being that you are quite obviously very uneducated when it comes to anything Jewish, I would like to inform you that there are no "Hassidic's" is Lakewood, just Orthodox.
Those that mix are not Orthodox.
By the way, do you believe in G-D?
P.S. You missspelled Please! Simple American word!
I know this is a year old but I just saw it. I am Orthodox and I consider you a Jew and member fo the family but you are being "naughty." You should not be airing our internal problems in front of the goyim who are looking for any excuse to justify THEIR anti-semitism. If you cannot live this particular life, I couldn't do it either, BTW, you are doing the right thing by moving to a more liberal assimilated community but please don't slam your own in front of the World. We have enough enemies out there and more every day.
[SIZE=3]Hypocrite! [/SIZE]
If you believe in a word of what you have posted, you would never have come to thsi forum; and certainly not posted what you did. I doubt you are even Jewish to begin with. If you are - you will never convince me online either - so save your typing.
You are correct, and it is done on purpose to draw out people like you. Thanks for taking the test.
You quite obviously do not know very much about Judaism, or the orthodox; however you surely have an unusually high interest in and about our people.
Firstly: It is a free country - and until you master some base and basic knowledge of our religion and heritage, I think you should only ask, instead of commenting completely ridiculous thoughts.
So we understand that it is a free country. So if it's true that the religion requires limited interaction with other "theses" or people in the common polite vernacular, then quite obviously, the religious will adhere to that. I'm sorry you are feeling bad about that. if you politely inquire of any Jewish institution, you will be treated very finely. I do suggest that by the way, so as to enhance and broaden you simplistic and needy understanding of Judaism.
You left out tremendous amount of information to properly address you insult.
Firstly do you really care?
Jewish people have a tremendous concern for their family members, certainly grandparents. That care and concern is viable and electric and is so noticed by others that are not Jewish, like you. Being so, "outsiders", like you, and I will stop reminding you of that, recognize this, and so, being that they realize the concern and care generated within the Jewish community for previous generations, others extend a common courtesy and establish a care and concern to understand as well. It is something actually learned from the Jewish people.
Tell me, do you really care about your grand-parents - where they came from - the fact that they could not understand English very well when the first arrived, and struggled to establish themselves and your parents, and indirectly YOU, to be prosperous in this foreign land?
Or are you the disrespectful kind - as you seem from your post - who doesn’t care - and would like to distance himself as far as possible from those who came over in steerage?
Lets assume for a moment that your grandparents - well meaning individuals came across while still young, from lets say.... Germany.. it sounds about right for you. In any case... Let's assume that they were Catholic (now did I spell that correctly?).
O.K. - So now what’s so hard to understand about them sounds pretty much the run of the mill kind... Unless of course they were die hard Nazi’s who proclaimed on Ellis Island to LOVE Jews... but that would have had them sent either back, or to some institution!
So you should try and explain your outburst with a touch more detail and fact. Thanks.
So let me hear some of the things you have actually witnessed.... Perhaps as I would assume you're a gossip mongler... alright so at least say that your incoherently repeat any vile story you can luster upon, and "add" your own conjured details - Read and believe what you want, but I'd like to hear your very own personal knowledge of the Jews... I doubt that you have any at all... Just a deep interest in a group you can't join... Fine!
Faulty logic. What does knowing American history have to do with being like a cult?
Secondly, I have a degree in American history, and actually lecture Orthodox Jewish children in grade school on American History. So I a can reassure you that they do very well in American History... In fact far better then some other ethnical groups.
No. Judaism is beautiful religion.. if you would know some more about it, you would come to that independent realization on your own - if you can muster the ability of an open mind! No cult involved... Just proudly the oldest religion in history - American or otherwise!
By the way.. Since you consider yourself haughty enough to proclaim Jews as uneducated in regard to American history, perhaps you can find the answers to these to easy questions in your store houses of vast American historical knowledge!
A: Who financed the American War of Independence?
B: What is the constitutional interpretation of religious liberties?
Being that you are quite obviously very uneducated when it comes to anything Jewish, I would like to inform you that there are no "Hassidic's" is Lakewood, just Orthodox.
Those that mix are not Orthodox.
By the way, do you believe in G-D?
P.S. You missspelled Please! Simple American word!
Ok, where do I start...
Much of what you "believe" of me is so far off that it is not even funny.
YOu are so quick to label someone because they question the actions of others.
German?
Nazi?
Why would you say that?
Evidentally you must hate Germans.
As a Catholic I have been taught by my God not to hate. Not to have war.
Can you say the same?
Next, I care tremendously about my grandparents and the life that they gave to all of us. My grandparents taught my parents to interact with Americans...to become one.
As for Jews, as you put it.
I grew up with Jews. I had in grammar school and high school Jewish friends. One of my best friends is a Syrian Jew.
And listen to this...
Jews that I know even shake their heads about the Jews in Lakewood.
Next, where did I say that Jews were uneducated about American History? Reread what I said...RabbiJoe.
One more thing...
I wrote Puhlease.
No misprint.
Oh yeah, thanks for your "test".
I am still LMAO at the idea that you even think that you were testing me.
I worked for several years for a company owned by Orthodox (who incidentally lived in Lakewood). I am not Jewish. I found my bosses to be very open to discussing the differences in custom and why they do the things they do. When I would ask them things, in an honest, forthright manner ("I have noticed on several occasions that your do xyz or don't do xyz - I hope you don't find it rude but I am very curious as to why ?). I have never felt like they wouldn't take the time to talk about it and would actually go out of their way to make sure I understood certain things. Things like not shaking a woman's hand, etc. it is more of an old world, traditional culture vs. a modernistic culture. In 1850, you would not ever ever find a woman driving in the front seat of a carriage with a man who was not her servant or her family member. If an Orthodox male is driving a non related woman, the woman will sit in the back seat. That is just an example but so much of what we perceive as being rude/reverse discrimination is just an insulated society.
I think the population on a whole is often looked down upon by non-Orthodox and they have rightly so developed a thick skin and no desire to chit-chat, and frankly I don't blame them. I will say that I have young children, and I have been in doctor waiting rooms with Orthodox moms and their kids, and their children have played along side mine, and I have had mothers initiate "small talk" with me after my saying a kind word to their child or smiling at the mother. I have also had discussions about quality of fruit/vegetables at the grocery store, and just general "mother-to-mother" eye rolling with ultra Orthodox moms while either my or their child were being disobedient or running amuk at a mall or at Marshalls. I have also encountered Orthodox families in Disneyworld, of all places, and not found them to be more rude than any others I have encountered.
Listen, if you were walking along and there was an Asian family and you said hello and they just looked at you, would you be as insulted ? What if you were in a grocery store and a clearly ethnic French woman on a cellphone with two children bumped your cart, would you be going on an on about it ? I think in this area, we have a natural curiosity because of the "Lakewood" Jewish absolute indifference to us. And too bad for us !! Many of these people live still in a very cultural home, similar to say a Portuguese immigrant or a Latin American immigrant. Even if they are 2nd or 3rd generation American, they are speaking a different language at home, and they are protective of their way of life and their religious customs which were nearly lost from some areas of the world not too long ago. They are not that unlike more traditional Muslim families (don't have a heart attack, Rabbi). They on a whole are almost from a different time. And I admire them for being so committed to their life. Religion is not a part of their life, it IS their life and this country might be in alot better shape if other religions, including my own, made God the focus and not just a Sunday 1 hour appointment.
Do I think that all the business practicies and the management of things in Lakewood are okay ? No, but really, is there a local government not without corruption and advantage takers ? Just because they have figured out how to "work the system" to their advantage - yes, they patronize "their own" but tell me, 50 or 70 or 200 years ago, when your family was a new immigrant, do you think they went out of their way to patronize other cultures who looked down on them ? No, they kept to theirselves. And with all the "Jew Bashing", who can blame them. How is Lakewood any different than Chinatown, or "Little Italy" of a generation ago ?
Have you BEEN to Chinatown in NYC lately ? There is not a non-tourist around who is not ethnically, culturally immersed Chinese. There are people there, elderly and young children, who do not speak a word of English and do not care to. They keep to their own, they patronize their own, they send their children to their own schools, they don't interact with anyone who is not Chinese unless it is for business. Walk in to a TRUE neighborhood Chinese business that does not cater to the tourist trade, and see how quickly you would recognize that brusque, can't be bothered with you attitude. How is it any different ? What about places like the Indian neighborhoods in Edison ? Do you think its any different there ? Surprise, its not. I just don't think you've been exposed to alot of different cultures to see the inner workings. I have been a health-care provider for many years, and I have intimiate dealings with Hispanic cultures, with Filipino, with different Indian (hindu, etc), with Bosnian and Serbian, with Gypsy, with Muslim, etc. Ever dealt with Armenians before ? Same thing. Its just we don't see it like it used to be, when every neighborhood had an ethnic identity.
And Rabbi Joe, I think it is a bit much to jump down the other poster's throat by starting to call him a German Catholic just because of his viewpoint.
Have I been to Chinatown lately?
Yes, I have. As a matter of fact there is a restaurant on Bayard St that is usually filled with Chinese (not a tourist trap), and I have been invited to sit down at the same table with them and eat.
Lakewood is very different than Chinatown or Little Italy.
Others are invited in Chinatown and Little Italy. They are not forced to move out.
Now we have a so-called Rabbi who is calling me out as anti-Jew.
I only hope, Rabbi, that you can say that you love people, especially those of Muslim faith.
I know this is a year old but I just saw it. I am Orthodox and I consider you a Jew and member fo the family but you are being "naughty." You should not be airing our internal problems in front of the goyim who are looking for any excuse to justify THEIR anti-semitism. If you cannot live this particular life, I couldn't do it either, BTW, you are doing the right thing by moving to a more liberal assimilated community but please don't slam your own in front of the World. We have enough enemies out there and more every day.
Boy, this sure does sound like someone thinks they're all high and mighty.
BTW...I take offense to you using the word "goyim". Makes you sound very condescending and racist.
So...the Amish are ethnic and interesting and the Orthodox Jews in Lakewood are an annoyance?
As zombiemommie said, the US is full of little ethnic enclaves and groups. It might suck to live in a neighbourhood for decades and then have it radically change in a short time frame, so I can get long term residents frustration, but Lakewood isn't the only town or community to have that happen, and Orthodox Jews aren't the only ones to change an area. My neighbourhood has gone from semi-rural to overdeveloped in the past 10 years. I don't like it, but there is not a lot I can do about it except move.
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I agree!
