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The term "white flight" is nearly always associated with the middle class abandoning the place, but I checked the census numbers fairly carefully and found little evidence of this. Not only has the median income steadily climbed in WO, each quantile has steadily increased over time.
So the racial demographics have changed, but the term "white flight" is very misleading here.
Regarding the long term outlook, the area up the slope whether in Montclair, South Orange or West Orange is always going to be very attractive -- the geography of the area makes it a magnet for upscale housing. Even after the supposed "crash", property values in SO and the nicer parts of WO and SO are holding up quite well.
As a recent graduate of WOHS, I can tell you that the diversity in the schools does not reflect the town's racial demographic stats.. the high school is 40% black, 30% white, and 20% spanish.. many parents send their sons to seton hall prep and their daughters to mount saint dominic's.. i see that you're moving into the gregory section. you won't hit too much racial diversity at gregory elementary, but their is plenty at edison, which is the central 6th grade school, and both middle schools, liberty and roosevelt, and a TON at the high school. i grew up ON the hill, a couple blocks above what is considered down the hill, but not quite entirely up the hill, and i can tell you that the main st. area isn't as bad as people make it out to be.. your child will be attending 6th grade down there at edison, but there's not much to worry about, unless you're walking around there at night.
This White Flight stuff is ignorant and misplaced. I'm currently in the market and our realtor is showing us Maplewood, SO and actually pushing us away from WO, moreso because we are considered affluent and there are more of "us" (African American) in SO and we would feel more welcome there. Maybe folks in WO really believe that the mere presence of African Americans is a threat to property values. Is that what you're saying? That's definitely what it sounds like. Maybe logic like this, which I hope isn't commonplace in WO, is the reason why. He's white, btw.
As we were told, it's not simply that white people are moving out, but diversity in affluence is increasing. Shame on your for over simplifying this and not giving people who happen not to be racist the benefit of the doubt in assuming that maybe the people next door who may be of a different ethnicity are equal financially and in their sensibilities.
From the notes above, you guys make it sound like normal white people are moving away. Perhaps some of the white residents who can no longer afford to stay are leaving? It's not related to race, but rather the fact that someone's moving and by looking at the composition, odds are they will be white. Simply put, if it's been mostly white, it's more likely that a white person will move. It's got nothing to do (I hope) the fact that non-whites are moving in. I really, really hope that's not the reason. Tell that to the old money African Americans in South Orange.
This is disgraceful and the values should go down on the homes where this dumb logic lives.
I agree with you that the fear of African American americans moving in is misguided. The way I see it is that SO and Maplewood as well as Montclair are really different from West Orange. For example all four are diverse but WO is different. WO is a white town with a minority population and truthfully taxes have shot up for a reason, while they can sugarcoat it all they want I dont think WO wants to be as diverse as the other ones. As a result, realtors rather not steer african americans to west orange. They rather steer them to SO, Montclair, Maplewood.
This White Flight stuff is ignorant and misplaced. I'm currently in the market and our realtor is showing us Maplewood, SO and actually pushing us away from WO, moreso because we are considered affluent and there are more of "us" (African American) in SO and we would feel more welcome there. Maybe folks in WO really believe that the mere presence of African Americans is a threat to property values. Is that what you're saying? That's definitely what it sounds like. Maybe logic like this, which I hope isn't commonplace in WO, is the reason why. He's white, btw.
As we were told, it's not simply that white people are moving out, but diversity in affluence is increasing. Shame on your for over simplifying this and not giving people who happen not to be racist the benefit of the doubt in assuming that maybe the people next door who may be of a different ethnicity are equal financially and in their sensibilities.
From the notes above, you guys make it sound like normal white people are moving away. Perhaps some of the white residents who can no longer afford to stay are leaving? It's not related to race, but rather the fact that someone's moving and by looking at the composition, odds are they will be white. Simply put, if it's been mostly white, it's more likely that a white person will move. It's got nothing to do (I hope) the fact that non-whites are moving in. I really, really hope that's not the reason. Tell that to the old money African Americans in South Orange.
This is disgraceful and the values should go down on the homes where this dumb logic lives.
It's complicated -- lots of stuff going on. Some neighhorboods have gotten somewhat abandoned (down the hill in West Orange), others have become more segregated (Maplewood south of Springfield, Tuxedo Park) though these areas are still solidly middle class (check median incomes) if not outrageously rich.
BTW, racial steering on part of a realtor is a serious ethical breach (they could lose their license if they were busted ... ) -- that's the kind of thing that leads to neighborhoods getting segregated in the first place -- what do you think happens when the realtors send all their AA clients to one neighborhood and all their Caucasian clients to another ?
I doubt you'll have a problem with bigots in WO. There are plenty of people airing bigoted views in this forum. None of them to my knowledge live in WO (or anywhere remotely similar)
I would agree, I do not think the Realtor is steering you away from WO in an illegal way. Also if you do go to WO you will not find bigots, it is not like some racist town or anything but it is different then South Orange.
I just recently bought in WO. I'm just east of Gregory Avenue on Wellington Avenue. I like my street a lot, and have met a few of the neighbors. My one neighbor is an older gentlemen that my wife met. He's lived there for a long time. My other neighbors have a young daughter. I also met a gentlemen that's involved with the "Valley Community Watch" organization and I think this is a great idea.
I think the area is night, and sure, it gets a little more depressed down by Hazel, but it's honestly just a matter of people taking pride in their properties closer to Hazel and making that section of town brighter and "feel" safer. I think as more people get involved in the community in this part of WO, it makes it a very nice place to live. And if that's the worst of WO, then I would say it's pretty darn good!
I would love to see some improvements to the Main Street area and have a downtown of our own, but it's also nice to visit SO.
There are no bad parts in SO. Yes it borders Newark and Irvington but it is clearly demarcated. On SO Ave, you clearly see how the scene changes once you near SHU and go into downtown. I have not lived in West Orange though I play tennis there( in winters) so cant comment on it. You cant beat the 35 min midtown commute to NY from SO.
Agreed, but those parts of SO are not as nice, the are worse then the "bad parts" of west orange.
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