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I read the article, and the liberal-leaning paper does not change the fact that the fire dept, unlike everyother city agency, is unchanged from 40 years ago. So why is that? This question never gets answered, except of course the BS line of "work hard" and "just sign up"!
Regarding your questions:
1-I don't think that is ok either, and neither is the exclusion of whites in public housing. They should be integrated into public housing and have equal access, but they don't. Same applies to the MTA, and ever other city agency/housing. If I were "white" I would sue the city to provide whites preferences in public housing and force them to be desegregated.
2-This question is silly. That's like saying "I met a black doctor in 1925, so clearly racism doesn't exist and it probably never did, otherwise how could a black person be a doctor?" There are always exceptions, like the few fire fighters you saw in the 1960s, and the few in 2010. However the fact remains the cards are stacked against them purposelly, which is why every other city agency has changed since 1960, except the fire dept. Why is that?
1-I don't think that is ok either, and neither is the exclusion of whites in public housing. They should be integrated into public housing and have equal access, but they don't. Same applies to the MTA, and ever other city agency/housing. If I were "white" I would sue the city to provide whites preferences in public housing and force them to be desegregated.
LOL yeah you would sue wouldn't ya? Un-goddamn-believable. There's really nothing more to be said here. You proved my point...
2-This question is silly. That's like saying "I met a black doctor in 1925, so clearly racism doesn't exist and it probably never did, otherwise how could a black person be a doctor?" There are always exceptions, like the few fire fighters you saw in the 1960s, and the few in 2010. However the fact remains the cards are stacked against them purposelly, which is why every other city agency has changed since 1960, except the fire dept. Why is that?
Once again, I addressed all this in my post #33 that you could in no way refute. Yes, the racist mentality will always exist in many peoples minds of all colors (did I just read that Dominican NY'rs don't want their children to consider themselves Americans??.........yeah I think I did!!).
But when it comes to civil service exams, anybody has the same oppurtunity (these days ok? I'll grant you that just for the sake of argument). This is like a broken goddamn record, and I now see that you will never take the chip off your shoulder and realize that blacks and hispanics actually have an easier time in many respects getting these jobs....
Your Dominican example does not apply. Whether they want their children to consider themselves as American is moot, because they are not A: actively denying anyone the ability to do anything, B: do not believe anyone/race/people are not equal or bad, simply much of the 1st generation have more of an affinity/connection to their country of origin (probably due to romanticizing how wonderful things are, which of course is not reality), which isn't that shocking.
I think everyone agrees that today anybody can take the exam and it is not a difficult exam. The exam though is not the issue..it is the fact that despite passing/doing well in the exam, only those that actually become firemen are the same exact people who were becoming firemen 40 years ago: white males who come from fire fighting families. Nothing has changed, despite an easier test....it is the system that is set up for the benefit of keeping things the same. And until the system changes, and the lock is released to actually let anyone be a fireman, we will be having this same conversation 40 years from now. And that would be sad indeed.
Your Dominican example does not apply. Whether they want their children to consider themselves as American is moot, because they are not A: actively denying anyone the ability to do anything, B: do not believe anyone/race/people are not equal or bad, simply much of the 1st generation have more of an affinity/connection to their country of origin (probably due to romanticizing how wonderful things are, which of course is not reality), which isn't that shocking.
I think everyone agrees that today anybody can take the exam and it is not a difficult exam. The exam though is not the issue..it is the fact that despite passing/doing well in the exam, only those that actually become firemen are the same exact people who were becoming firemen 40 years ago: white males who come from fire fighting families. Nothing has changed, despite an easier test....it is the system that is set up for the benefit of keeping things the same. And until the system changes, and the lock is released to actually let anyone be a fireman, we will be having this same conversation 40 years from now. And that would be sad indeed.
In regards to the Dominican example: I'm simply talking about the racist mentality. This country has given a majority of these folks an unbelievable oppurtunity. Anything they want is at their fingertips. Their children go to American schools and get American healthcare. The fact that a poll shows that as a majority, they want to teach their children not to consider themselves as American is beyond racist. It's just down right sickening...
When it comes to the second part of your post; it's come to the point where you have proven to anybody who has a brain in their head that you have no idea what your talking about. Literally. Hardly anyone I know on the job has any family that has ever been. You obviously won't believe that. But it's true.
One more question I forgot to ask: Why are no other ethnic groups throughout the city up in arms and whining about how oppressed they are in regards to the dept? Groups that are far less represented than blacks and hispanics (asians, indians, middle easterns, etc..)?
And also what are your thoughts on the hispanic fraternal organization wanting nothing to do with any lawsuits against the dept, and at most trying to recruit more members because, you guessed it, anyone can get on??
Please try and answer these as well. You did an immaculate job at attempting to answer the previous ones....
None of my statements are unsubstantiated or untrue, and I refer you back to the article and the quotes I posted. The facts are blatant and obvious...yet you choose to believe whatever it is you want.
As far as other groups not being up in arms: A: I cannot answer that, you should ask those groups and B: Maybe they are up in arms but we aren't hearing about it or have simply aligned with other groups..who knows.
The Hispanic Fraternal Organization is weak, and the reason why they want nothing to do with the lawsuits against the dept is because they do not want to be perceived as part of the problem to those Hispanic people who passed the test and are sitting in limbo. The reality that needs to be repeated is simple: You can pass the test and do well on it, but at the end of the day, the cards are greatly stacked against you to keep the dept looking as it did 40 years ago: 90% white.
How you can ignore/justify any civil service job remaining exactly the same as 40 years ago while the city has dramatically changed and every other civil service dept has changed as well is ridiculous.
Your statements are not statements. It is ONE statement what you keep repeating over and over again. You have no argument.
The reason other groups are not up in arms is simple. They don't want this job so they don't come out for it. It's simple, common sense. I have talked with an Asian candidate who just got screwed. He confirms this. Trust me, if they were up in arms you'd hear about it. What leads you to believe differently is anybody's guess.....
LOL honestly man, you're set in your mindset. Once again, this mindset will only hold the people back you are trying to speak up for. I'm done with you for now. I've got better things to do than try and open the mind of a stubborn man with a chip on his shoulder....
Since the fire dept is still exactly the same as it was 40 years ago, while the city has changed dramatically and every other city agency has also changed, it is pretty clear who is holding people back...and it sure isn't my mindset...it is clearly and blatantly the fire dept being obstructionist and preventing any changes.
The fact that we are having this conversation 40 years later is sad. But I agree..we are going in circles so this thread should be closed.
It is all for show. They aren't just "looking for" firefighters. They also advertise positions like EMS/Paramedic, Inspector, and others that I don't remember now. Regardless, it's a joke of a tactic that is simply designed to give people a false sense of hope. I remember filling out their papers for all the positions. Got a call back in April or May where they wanted used to come down to MetroTech for an information session. We were told all about the job, benefits, potential schedules, etc.
We were also told that we would have to take physical tests sometime in the summer and if we passed those, we'd have a good chance of making it to the class starting in January of 2011. This class was going to be basically a training class, we'd have to maintain a minimum average (I forgot what it was) and we'd be certified as long as we passed the exam. Summer came and went, never heard a peep from them. One day in September, I wondered, "What's going on?", and decided to call them. I was told point blank that there were no evaluations and there would be no classes in January.
"So what about everyone who attended that seminar?"
Nothing will happen to them now, but we'll keep them in our database. Right now, we are only looking at those who already have their certifications and it will only be on a replacement basis.
I already knew about the hiring freeze for firefighters, but this is ridiculous.
More of our "bravest" in action. It takes 2 months for this firefighter to turn himself in? That sure isn't brave to me..it's cowardly. And what's worse..we already know he was involved in a hit-and-run and fled the scene, yet he has a 30 day suspension (the maximum allowed by the union) and is STILL on the payroll. Utterly Pathetic.
More of our "bravest" in action. It takes 2 months for this firefighter to turn himself in? That sure isn't brave to me..it's cowardly. And what's worse..we already know he was involved in a hit-and-run and fled the scene, yet he has a 30 day suspension (the maximum allowed by the union) and is STILL on the payroll. Utterly Pathetic.
"The bravest are the men and women in the US Armed Forces. This bravest thing is really out of control."
He should do some time upstate but we shall see. Lets see how brave he is locked up though.
He hired that guy "Joseph Tacopina." as his defense attorney and he has already put the spin on the case.
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