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This was an interesting article and helped make things clearer for people. Here are some interesting facts from the article:
"There’s no question that there is something very wrong with how the FDNY adds new employees. For nearly 40 years, various courts have issued injunctions to correct the miserable record of non-white hiring. New York’s fire department may, in fact, be the whitest large institution run by a major city in the United States. Your chance of becoming a firefighter in New York if you aren’t white, Irish, or Italian, and come from a family of firefighters has traditionally been very slim." So why is this the case? This goes unanswered.
"As a result of the city’s inaction, the whiteness of the FDNY is blatant and embarrassing. (How bad is it? The most recent lawsuit by the federal government was initiated by President George W. Bush’s Justice Department.)"
"In 1971, blacks constituted 32 percent of the city’s population, but only 5 percent of the fire department. Almost four decades later, only 3.4 percent of the FDNY is black, and less than 7 percent is Latino. In a city with only a 35 percent white population, the FDNY is about 90 percent white." As I said before, 40 years later...the fire dept is the same and they intend on keeping it that way.
"Other city departments don’t have such stark numbers. The NYPD, for example, is 16.6 percent black and 18 percent Latino. Those levels are each lower than the actual population, but the practices used to reach them are within federal guidelines."
"New York’s fire department is also whiter than those in other cities. Of the fire departments in eight of the nation’s largest cities, New York’s is dead last in diversity." Why is that?
"The FDNY perennially can’t seem to lift its minority hiring numbers at all. “This pattern of underrepresentation has remained essentially unchanged since at least the 1960s,” U.S. Federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis recently wrote in one of many rulings against the city, later adding, “The more things change, the more they stay the same.”
So while people like availableusername are feeding you the "just apply and work hard" lines, the reality is what I have been saying: the system is set up such that people of color are not permitted entry. It has been that way for 40 years, is that way today, and will likely be that way for 40 more years.
I challange YOU or SOMEBODY YOU KNOW to take the next exam, ONLY then can you TRULY understand! Only then can all this BS be proven to be just that, BS!
Bombero you should read the article, and understand it is not really the test, it is the entire system. My quotes above from the article pretty much summed up the entire NYC fire dept fiasco.
Bombero you should read the article, and understand it is not really the test, it is the entire system. My quotes above from the article pretty much summed up the entire NYC fire dept fiasco.
You actually have not summed up a goddamn thing. I think you completely missed the entire point of the article. If hiring practices were unfair back in the day (which I have acknowledged is possible, but not proven.....again I can say the same thing about corrections as we speak), then that is very wrong. But the city has corrected these alleged wrongdoings in the past couples decades. Once again.....THERE IS ZERO PREFERRED HIRING THAT TAKES PLACE AMONGST FAMILY MEMBERS. THIS IS ALL IN YOUR HEAD DUE TO WHAT PEOPLE HAVE TOLD YOU. THIS DOES NOT OCCUR. YOU ARE SPEWING LIE AFTER LIE AFTER LIE.
As evidenced by the article, any person of any race or gender can apply and do well enough to get hired. This is proven in the article. It's right there in your face. With pictures. What more do you need to understand this? Open your eyes. Understand what this article was saying. All you are reading is that "the department is unfairly white" "blacks are being discriminated against" blah blah blah....
This is the Village Voice, a very liberal paper. Of course there is going to be sections of the article saying things like that. But as a whole, the article shows you that every single person regardless of color has a fair shot. Did you not read the entire thing? It sounds like it.
And yes, other cities have increased their black and hispanic representation because of quotas. This is a fact. New York is not willing to do this. I applaud them for that. That is no way to go about things.
The current list that got invalidated is full of well abled, solid candidates with many of them being people of color. It needs to be used. This is the way to increase numbers. It's not going to happen in one class or one list even.....
I understand the idea that you simply take the test, pass it and violah you are a fireman b/c the test isn't that hard. The reality? If it were really as simply as you allege, and there were not in fact preferences to maintain the fire dept as is, then we would have seen changes over the last 40 years. But we haven't. Why is that?
Read all the quotes I posted especially: "Your chance of becoming a firefighter in New York if you aren’t white, Irish, or Italian, and come from a family of firefighters has traditionally been very slim." So if all you need to do is to apply, take the test and "work hard", why is it that unless you are white and come from a firefighting family, your chances of becoming a firefighter are virtually zero? That's reality vs the BS you and the dept are spewing, and have been for 40+ years.
I've read all the quotes that you posted. As well as the entire article, which you obviously have not. Like I said, the voice is a very liberal paper. They're gonna print quotes like that. The fact of the matter is, the ONLY advantage that Irish and Italians from FF families have over anyone else is maybe more of a heads up when a new test is coming around. That's it. Nothing more. You understand? There is no FF knowledge you need to know before taking the test. There is no preferential hiring. You are an unbelievably ignorant individual if you think that. But it's not your fault really. It's what you have been told. I understand that it might be difficult to go and research things on your own. It takes a little effort, and that's kind of annoying.
Please SoBroGuy. For the love of everything sacred. Please do me the courtesy of answering at LEAST a couple of my questions that I've asked, as I've answered all of yours:
1) Why is the dept of corrections overwhelmingly black and hispanic and not representative of the whites in this city? How about the MTA?
2) This one is important: How have the black and hispanic firefighters currently on the job gotten to where they are? And also, how did those candidates in the article (which you obviously ignored) get to within an inch of the academy right up until the judge took it away from them?
Please don't ignore these questions like you consistently have. Please. I ask you nicely.....
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