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Hip-Hop is a by-product of the mixing of culture, like I said.
but Rap is was mainly blacks(in my opinion), but if it was a by-product, that only makes my point stronger, they did mix culture.
I have a Nuyorican friend that calls me N. (and all other Puerto Ricans, it doesnt matter the color since I am white by race), now do you think that is a Puerto Rican culture?
I always assume that in the beginning, the New York/East Coast Hip hop culture dealt more with uplifting rap messages (about poor/working class issues) with a combination of dance moves (break dancing). Then by the late 80's/early 90's, the Los Angeles/West coast Hip Hop (Gangsta rap) started to get more attention, record deals, major distribution, and it was more profitable to sell. So by 1992, Gangsta Rap had already taken over the Hip Hop culture. The New York/East Coast Hip hop community had to accept these changes. Gagsta rap was way more popular and so they had to adapt to it. Now I always though that the N word, is more associated with the Los Angeles/West coast Hip Hop (Gangsta rap) scene than early New York/East Coast Hip Hop.
Sorry to reiterate and obviously I have no Ricans or anyone else on here backing me up, but the premise of the OP that Nuyoricans are somehow doing worse educationally and economically than their New York City raised African-American and Dominican counterparts is seriously off base and totally FALSE.
This discussion should be around the issue of poverty in general, or even about poverty in the Nuyorican community, but it should not start off with the false premise that blacks and Dominicans and other ethnic groups RAISED here (not transplants which are always more educated) are all doing better, socioeconomically, than Puerto Ricans. Don't believe the hype people. You just need to visit a few projects and you will see what I am talking about. If someone has an ACCURATE and recent source for this, I'd like to see it. I searched on the net and could find no comparison, aside from the one NewYooker found which showed blacks and PR in the entire US almost the same in terms of education, and 3 percentage points above Dominicans.
For example, I read that there were some awful signs on some Italian businesses in East Harlem, were it will read, "no dogs and Puerto Ricans allowed'. Of course there was no need to add blacks to the signs, since no black will be welcome anyway, but the Italians wanted to send the clear message that Puerto Ricans were more in common with dogs or animals than they were like them. I guess European or white. They did not have so much of an issue with the Irish or other European immigrant. Also it was normal for the cops to ignore their problems. Most cops at that time were of Irish descent. So why care. In many neighborhoods they were not really welcome. In either Italian, Irish or any white neighborhoods.
Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, but I think you need to do some more reading. The Germans and WASPs said the same thing about the Italians and irish verbatim "No dogs, Mod cut or Mod cut allowed" was a common sign.
Last edited by Viralmd; 12-11-2008 at 12:10 PM..
Reason: Inappropriate language
You mean, the Lakota people have their own version of hip-hop?
I would say that it is an American version not so much a Lakota version. Lakota's live like most Americans these days. When hip hop artist come to their area they go see them perform just like most Americans do now. Some people I would say under 40 and I guess even older all over the world like it. They love the artist from NY. Nyoricans, have spread their culture, in hip hop, whether it is mixed or whatever all over the US probably around the world.
There are always those that want to preserve the old ways and traditions like in any other culture. They don't like the mixing and influence on the young. However culture is always changing and evolving. I belong to several genealogy societies, it is a hobby. When I read old interviews taken in the 1800's of regular citizens that were survivors of the Civil War or the Indian Territories they make the same comments about the culture mixing up, the interviews actually read similiar to some of the post on these forums when discussing, ethnicity, or race or something cultural. Of course it is phrased in the vernacular of that time. It is amazing.
Oh, and let me say this, since I have said before that nuyoricans give us a bad name, this is not entirely correct,
I am proud of Spikeboy25 and NooYowkur81, these type of people dont give us a bad name actually they help, I just hope that many others follow their path, more profesional we have the better the public view us.
Wow, that is sad how you feel about a whole group of people, especially coming from the same background. I cannot stand how people on this forum think it is more than fine to downgrade whole groups of people simply because many members of the group live in poverty. It is very difficult to get out of poverty, and it is interesting and helpful to figure out why, but stop hating on poor people and thinking its OK. And stop grouping all people in your minds as lazy or criminals. Some of my PR family members are poor, but they're none of the things you suggest about them. Obviously in your mind Nuyoricans are only deserving of respect if they are "profesionals" [sic].
Regarding the PRs that moved to the states...they came with the same aspirations of the American Dream that every other group before them had..work hard, and provide a better life for themselves and their children. Unfortunately, their reliance on Daddy (the US government) to help them with everything, which was part of their culture, ultimately led to their downfall...always has. Until that mentality changes, aka the Island "grows up" and "moves out", as well as those in the US....their plight will never change.
Sadly, it seems that argument could just as easily be used to describe your own ethnicity's plight (African-Americans). How is this unique to Puerto Ricans?
I believe, as SobroGuy pointed out, that there is a definite reluctance for the island of Puerto Rico to move toward independence, specifically because they would lose the connection to Federal funds. But...that's how things go in a republic. Unless the U.S. cuts Puerto Rico loose (there must be a diplomatic term for such an event, but I don't know what it is), which isn't likely, it will be up to the people living there to decide their political status. Certainly, the U.S. wouldn't reject the passage of an independence referendum on the island.
I lived in Bermuda during the time of a referendum on whether or not to seek independence from the UK. This idea was soundly defeated. The island remains part of the UK, however, they do not, as far as I know, receive any financial or other support from the UK. So they are a colonial place like the others cited (DR, PR, Haiti) but financially they do VERY well because they have an international reinsurance industry and a tourist industry (which has died down a lot since its hay day in the 50's). PR also has tax benefits similar to offshore domiciles like Bermuda, but somehow it hasn't helped much obviously. So yeah, I'm not sure their issues are necessarily tied to not being independent.
I don't blame Nuyoricans as a group just like I do not blame African-Americans, Appalachian hillbillies, or any other sector of the population as a group. In 2008, I blame each and every individual - regardless of to what group they pertain or belong - who decides to drop out of school, engage in violence, and commit crime. Prejudices toward race/ethnicity and toward the poor still exist and I will not deny that; however, they don't exist strongly enough to hold down people who have the motivation and drive to be upstanding citizens that provide from themselves and their families. I judge people individually, so when you say "blame game" I certainly hope you are not referring to me. You know that whenever I speak negatively about certain "Nuyoricans" and their neighborhoods, I always state that I am merely talking about some of them and not trying to say that the whole group is bad.
Did you grow up with a mother who is 18 and possibly on drugs (as that's what many 18 year old kids do)? Did you grow up in the projects? Did you go to a crappy school? Did you experience racism (doubtful since you love to point out how white you are)? Try putting yourself in someone else's shoes and see where your thinking might lead you differently. General comment: This is a broader issue of the origins of poverty and how to get out of it. This is unfortunately NOT unique to Puerto Ricans.
Last edited by Viralmd; 12-11-2008 at 12:52 PM..
Reason: Personal attack
Sorry to reiterate and obviously I have no Ricans or anyone else on here backing me up, but the premise of the OP that Nuyoricans are somehow doing worse educationally and economically than their New York City raised African-American and Dominican counterparts is seriously off base and totally FALSE.
This discussion should be around the issue of poverty in general, or even about poverty in the Nuyorican community, but it should not start off with the false premise that blacks and Dominicans and other ethnic groups RAISED here (not transplants which are always more educated) are all doing better, socioeconomically, than Puerto Ricans. Don't believe the hype people. You just need to visit a few projects and you will see what I am talking about. If someone has an ACCURATE and recent source for this, I'd like to see it. I searched on the net and could find no comparison, aside from the one NewYooker found which showed blacks and PR in the entire US almost the same in terms of education, and 3 percentage points above Dominicans.
You are right, we should stay on topic. I totally agree with you. However anyone that reads and keeps up with current events along with history knows that the premise is false. Poverty and lack of education effects all groups. The 2 go hand in hand most times, not always, there are educated poor people as well. We don't like to discuss that though.
The few percentage points that will seperate any group members, of any group, that are poor, in terms of socioeconomics means very little, this includes poor whites. Real middle class (there is a difference between middle income and middle class) to rich people have more resources to make sure their youngsters are educated. After they are educated they have more connections to make sure they succeed. It is very complex.
Just because someone chooses to live in a certain neighborhood so that they can live well, rather than to barely make it in another, doesn't mean they are poor. Most people will choose to do this so that they can send their children to private or parochial school. Because most publics after elementary are not good. This complaint is being heard all across the country not just NYC.
And obviously you vote Republican, am I right? Blame the victim and all that. Did you grow up with a mother who is 18 and possibly on drugs (as that's what many 18 year old kids do)? Did you grow up in the projects? Did you go to a crappy school? Did you experience racism (doubtful since you love to point out how white you are)? Try putting yourself in someone else's shoes and see where your thinking might lead you differently. General comment: This is a broader issue of the origins of poverty and how to get out of it. This is unfortunately NOT unique to Puerto Ricans.
I think that BOTH Republicans and Democrats would like to see Puerto Rico, Puerto Ricans, other minorities, all Americans attain their fullest potential.
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I always assume that in the beginning, the New York/East Coast Hip hop culture dealt more with uplifting rap messages (about poor/working class issues) with a combination of dance moves (break dancing). Then by the late 80's/early 90's, the Los Angeles/West coast Hip Hop (Gangsta rap) started to get more attention, record deals, major distribution, and it was more profitable to sell. So by 1992, Gangsta Rap had already taken over the Hip Hop culture. The New York/East Coast Hip hop community had to accept these changes. Gagsta rap was way more popular and so they had to adapt to it. Now I always though that the N word, is more associated with the Los Angeles/West coast Hip Hop (Gangsta rap) scene than early New York/East Coast Hip Hop.
