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Why would you ride the train a couple blocks just to save money? Logistically, you would still have to fight the same traffic to get out of downtown. In most cities with a similar layout, there are park and rides at stations. Basically, you would drive to a station closer to where you live, then take the train to work. That's how it worked at home, at least until they expand the system. Building and maintaining such an expensive system just for Thunder games is a really, really stupid idea. It wouldn't alleviate traffic any other time of the year. Further studies could be done, but just as an example it would be far better to have a terminus at NW Expressway/Meridian going south toward 50th, then turn east along 50th toward Pennsylvania, then south toward 23rd, then east toward Classen, then south to downtown (where it could serve office buildings, the arena and Bricktown) and then east toward Lincoln and north toward government offices... then somewhere else to reach more residential areas. Before anyone picks that apart, that's just an example. A subway isn't a feasible option for OKC on account of the much higher expense, so you also have to bear in mind that a light rail will radically change the streets they serve. In other words, people will inevitably lose homes and businesses (or at least part of them) to make room for the train and lanes for cars.
Despite our difference in feelings about OKC, this is really good input. If I were among the powers that be, I'd put your suggestions to action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvxhd
That's precisely the issue, especially in this day and age. To borrow a quote from the book Earth: "Faster was smaller's more demanding technology twin. In less than 100 years the travel time from New York City to San Francisco was cut from six months by horse and foot to just six hours by plane. You'd think we would be endlessly grateful for the advancement. Yet God forbid the flight got delayed 40 minutes by fog... The only thing that increased more rapidly than the speed of new technology was the speed with which we became irritated at its now relative slowness."
My point with that is that this is an age of instant gratification, and you'll be hard pressed to find people who want to wait for something. Especially for something that may not happen. Oklahoma has 49 other states and DC to compete with, and OKC has hundreds of towns and cities as competition. OKC is at a disadvantage now as it tries to catch up.
Very good book. And that brings up a good point. OKC is for people like me who see opportunities to make a difference in a community that is reinventing itself. For those who desire a place that has reached that level of establishment, OKC is not for them. It is a work in progress.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvxhd
I will believe it when I see it. The general mindset here though seems to be in opposition to such an endeavor.
The general mindset is opposed because people have been fooled into thinking its pork-barrel waste. If they were educated on the benefits or even see the benefits in action, minds can be changed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvxhd
Passenger numbers are up in a lot of airports. You're still ignoring the fact that there isn't a huge change in availability. Simply put: if and when the demand is there, airlines will respond. And no, they don't meet my expectations. I would kill to get out of town more frequently, as I desperately need a change of scenery and culture. At this time though, flights are prohibitively expensive for me to do that.
Fair enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvxhd
Did I say you don't have the right to believe otherwise? I also never said it wouldn't succeed. I did say some projects are worthless at present, but mostly I've stated that I hate it here. I hate it here because I don't identify with the local culture, I have no attachment to the place (very deep roots, but no attachment), the things I want aren't here, and if things I want come here they will take years to do.
I have no attachment or deep roots in Houston and can't wait to get out. I'm just of dealing with long commutes, inflated egos and the fact that living here just gets more expensive every year, so my salary goes no where. In Oklahoma City I have a ton of family and friends, I have a passion for seeing the city succeed.
I just have to ask, what things to do want to come to OKC?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvxhd
Before you make Oklahoma sound more moderate than it really is, I have to point out that Oklahoma has some of the most restrictive abortion laws in the country, and seems to be trying to make them stricter. Oklahoma has a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage, allows discrimination based on sexual orientation, does not view crimes targeting GLBT people as hate crimes, attempted to instate "Don't ask, don't tell" in the Oklahoma National Guard, and recently the governor ordered an end to same-sex spousal benefits to members of the Oklahoma National Guard. Oklahoma specifically targeted Muslims with a useless anti-Sharia law bill (that was barred by a judge), but allowed students in public schools to organize prayer groups and express their religious views... but only if the school deemed them eligible through a list of criteria. The low-point beer and blue laws have been discussed ad nauseum.
Yes, I have followed Oklahoma's embarrassments. I'm not trying to make Oklahoma sound more moderate than it really is, but many of the above stated are happening here in Texas, as well, despite its much larger population. It even stopped National Guard benefits for same sex couples before Oklahoma did. 500,000 voters in Oklahoma in 2004 voted against the ban on gay marriage. I will have to say that moderates are more prevalent in Oklahoma than many are led to believe, however their flaw is that they do not stand up against staunch conservatives.
In all reality though, I am not going to let some ultra-conservative posers prevent me from enjoying Oklahoma. I enjoy Oklahoma for me. As far as the beer laws go, the voice of change is growing louder, and low-point beer took a recent hit as high-point Anheuser-Busch products are being re-introduced to the Oklahoma market starting November 1. Oklahomans for Modern Laws and several other special interest groups that are pushing for selling wine in grocery stores are hoping to capitalize on the situation to further their campaign.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvxhd
You know... I could go on with my list too. So it's hard for you to say that Oklahoma is some "live and let live" paradise that welcomes everyone-- you need to consider others' perspectives. Pretty much all of those require state action, not city. If you will recall those Venn diagrams they teach in school: 100% of OKC people live in Oklahoma, but 100% of Okies don't live in OKC. Actually, 15.7% of all Okies live in OKC. For issues where OKC needs the state to act, the rest of the state can easily dominate it either through representation or direct votes. If those people don't see a direct benefit to them, they can easily hold back OKC.
I can see where you are coming from. This happened with GARVEE bonds. Rural representatives didn't like the fact that ODOT was allowed to bond out the widening project for Broadway Extension from NW 122nd to NE 63rd, which is why it was done in two years and not half a decade. They took the case to court and now GARVEE bonds can no longer be used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvxhd
I went in for an interview with the Department of Tourism earlier this year, and I asked about their campaign. They specifically told me they concentrate on states immediately bordering Oklahoma. I asked what their future plans were for trying to advertise Oklahoma on a national, or even international scale, and they said they might in the future. Regardless of what their campaign is, OKC is a hard sell.
OKC doesn't depend on the Department of Tourism to market itself. And they don't need to. I have never agreed with the Dept of Tourism's marketing strategies. Oklahoma City's commercials were produced by the OKC chamber and the Chickasaw Nation. They did a bang up job. The state dept of tourism, not so aggressive.
dvxhd, I'll give you a bit of background about myself. I was born in Edmond in the late 1970s and grew up in Edmond. Throughout the 1980s, I distinctly remember the effects of the oil boom and oil bust that impacted OKC to its core. During the 1970s and early 1980s, a lot of high rises were built. The construction literally stopped in 1984. My parents drove me by Leadership Square in 1983 after the topping-off ceremony and showed me the tower crane hovering over what is today Valliance Bank. Oklahoma City lost population between 1983 and 1990. I remember each year kids' faces disappeared as their parents found jobs in other states.
The oil bust lasted until 1989, and during the 1990s OKC struggled to get its economy going. Population growth rebounded in 1991. Throughout middle school and high school, a lot of students were getting enrolled at my school, mostly from California and Michigan. Before 1993, I had my heart set on leaving Oklahoma. And during that time, although I enjoyed living in Edmond, Oklahoma City literally had nothing to show off to people from out of town. No Bricktown, an aging minor-league baseball stadium, an aging convention center and only one hotel was downtown. However, when the visions of MAPS were published in the paper, I was intrigued as I have always had a fascination with cities. The mindset then was heavily opposed to MAPS and early polls predicted it wouldn't pass. It did, by a small margin of 54%.
When MAPS was getting finished project by project, as promised, public sentiment for MAPS began to change, and my feelings for OKC changed, and as MAPS for Kids passed for education, I knew OKC was on to something. I guess what draws me to OKC as that it is the underdog against all odds, and what has been accomplished to-date has exceeded my own expectations. I admire the Devon Tower, not because it has been so long since an office tower was built in OKC, I admire the design and the fact that it was speculated as a 37-story tower that ended up being 50 floors. It could have been an every-day ordinary office tower, but it is a beautiful building.
I moved to Texas for family (in-laws) reasons, which hasn't worked out so well, so we look forward to calling Oklahoma City home again.
Why would you ride the train a couple blocks just to save money? Logistically, you would still have to fight the same traffic to get out of downtown. In most cities with a similar layout, there are park and rides at stations. Basically, you would drive to a station closer to where you live, then take the train to work. That's how it worked at home, at least until they expand the system. Building and maintaining such an expensive system just for Thunder games is a really, really stupid idea. It wouldn't alleviate traffic any other time of the year. Further studies could be done, but just as an example it would be far better to have a terminus at NW Expressway/Meridian going south toward 50th, then turn east along 50th toward Pennsylvania, then south toward 23rd, then east toward Classen, then south to downtown (where it could serve office buildings, the arena and Bricktown) and then east toward Lincoln and north toward government offices... then somewhere else to reach more residential areas. Before anyone picks that apart, that's just an example. A subway isn't a feasible option for OKC on account of the much higher expense, so you also have to bear in mind that a light rail will radically change the streets they serve. In other words, people will inevitably lose homes and businesses (or at least part of them) to make room for the train and lanes for cars.
It's not a stupid idea at all when you think about their plans for downtown. Planners want the blight gone and the people who like to spend money to replace it. Once that blight is gone, all these middle classers will come in and enjoy the area more and they will use the trolley because a lot of them are way too out of shape to walk a great distance. Oklahoma City is a town with too many adults who are severely out of shape. They will need the trolley to access these points.
Also, it will help in summer when it's really hot out there and no one wants to walk far in the heat. This particular system is not designed to bring people into downtown, rather, help middle classers already there who might be squirmish about riding with the poor people who take public transit. I take it you are not familiar with that system? I live in Moore, the reason it doesn't reach this far has more to do with the fact people do not want the city element traveling down to Moore so they kinda want it to stay out. It's kinda protectionist thinking. Same kind of thinking is going on downtown with that trolley. If you haven't ridden Mass trans you really have no idea what it's like. I rode it once just to see. Not my idea of fun.
Location: The edge of the world and all of Western civilization
984 posts, read 1,192,249 times
Reputation: 1691
Quote:
Originally Posted by looking4infothxalot
It's not a stupid idea at all when you think about their plans for downtown. Planners want the blight gone and the people who like to spend money to replace it. Once that blight is gone, all these middle classers will come in and enjoy the area more and they will use the trolley because a lot of them are way too out of shape to walk a great distance. Oklahoma City is a town with too many adults who are severely out of shape. They will need the trolley to access these points.
Also, it will help in summer when it's really hot out there and no one wants to walk far in the heat. This particular system is not designed to bring people into downtown, rather, help middle classers already there who might be squirmish about riding with the poor people who take public transit. I take it you are not familiar with that system? I live in Moore, the reason it doesn't reach this far has more to do with the fact people do not want the city element traveling down to Moore so they kinda want it to stay out. It's kinda protectionist thinking. Same kind of thinking is going on downtown with that trolley. If you haven't ridden Mass trans you really have no idea what it's like. I rode it once just to see. Not my idea of fun.
When you're ready to give me a logical explanation, please respond. Phoenix has a relatively well-used light rail, and temperatures are much hotter there and for longer periods of the year. Beyond that, the vast majority of America is hot in the summer and people still wait for trains. Contrarily, many cities are bitterly cold in the winter, and people wait for trains then too. And the remark about the poor people: if your mindset is the general consensus in OKC, then public transit will be doomed to fail. It's public for a reason, meaning that people of any economic class can use it. It benefits people with lesser income because they can get to work AND don't need to save up for a car or dedicate so much money into maintaining one. Why is that a bad thing?
And no, I guess I have no idea what it's like. I only took it every day to get to work when living in Asia. I always take it when I travel unless it doesn't exist where I am. At home, I lived five miles from downtown and walked three blocks to take the train to get there, or to venues, to the theater, to bars/clubs, to events, etc. I didn't drive five miles to park two blocks away just to take the train one block because "it was too hot." If it isn't your idea of fun, don't take it. And in case you aren't aware, public transit isn't there to be fun, it's there to offer an alternative means of transportation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by okcpulse
Very good book. And that brings up a good point. OKC is for people like me who see opportunities to make a difference in a community that is reinventing itself. For those who desire a place that has reached that level of establishment, OKC is not for them. It is a work in progress.
I can tell you though, it's growing much faster at home than it is here... yet, despite all the same big ideas I heard all the time, very few actually came to fruition. If the number of proposed skyscrapers there were built, the skyline would have easily been three times larger. They just fizzled out though. A lot of businesses said they intended to open there too. Many of them never did. Many big ideas in the planning stage ended up becoming watered down versions of themselves once completed. If you, or anyone else, wondered why I'm doubtful of OKC blossoming into more: there's your answer. I've seen it over, and over, and over again. I had a job for two years, and in that time my 15 minute drive became 90 minutes, 7 traffic lights became 23, mostly empty lots became strip malls and apartments... and despite that incredibly rapid growth, many proposals were just disappointments. Plain and simple: the biggest problem there is that the people resisted the change and got in the way of progress.
Quote:
Originally Posted by okcpulse
The general mindset is opposed because people have been fooled into thinking its pork-barrel waste. If they were educated on the benefits or even see the benefits in action, minds can be changed.
That is going to be very hard to do. Very. See my above complaint about home. People wanted to keep things the way they were. You can also see the quote from the other poster earlier in this response. Any time I've gone to downtown OKC, I have never come across a homeless person. That doesn't mean they aren't there, it just means I don't see them. No matter what I say though, he will believe what he wants to believe. The same can be said about anyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by okcpulse
I have no attachment or deep roots in Houston and can't wait to get out. I'm just of dealing with long commutes, inflated egos and the fact that living here just gets more expensive every year, so my salary goes no where. In Oklahoma City I have a ton of family and friends, I have a passion for seeing the city succeed.
I just have to ask, what things to do want to come to OKC?
I do have deep roots and family in OKC. However, most of the "kids" in my generation (which includes me) either don't live here or don't want to stay. I have no friends here and after being here for more than two years it just isn't growing on me. A lot of what you've said could be applied to OKC (and elsewhere) too. I haven't encountered the big ego thing here, but I've come across a disproportionately large number of crazy people in OKC. By crazy I don't mean fun crazy, I mean asylum crazy. I talk to my friend at home once or twice a day, and he's commented that I've never had so many stories about locals as I have here. Yeah, I know that's not everyone, but to be honest that's a huge deterrent for me to want to meet anyone, and I'm just worn out and apathetic on the whole thing. Instead, I dedicate a lot of my free time to studying so that I can hopefully have a competitive edge in the job market in 2015.
That last question: do you mean what would I want to come to OKC?
Quote:
Originally Posted by okcpulse
Yes, I have followed Oklahoma's embarrassments. I'm not trying to make Oklahoma sound more moderate than it really is, but many of the above stated are happening here in Texas, as well, despite its much larger population. It even stopped National Guard benefits for same sex couples before Oklahoma did. 500,000 voters in Oklahoma in 2004 voted against the ban on gay marriage. I will have to say that moderates are more prevalent in Oklahoma than many are led to believe, however their flaw is that they do not stand up against staunch conservatives.
In all reality though, I am not going to let some ultra-conservative posers prevent me from enjoying Oklahoma. I enjoy Oklahoma for me. As far as the beer laws go, the voice of change is growing louder, and low-point beer took a recent hit as high-point Anheuser-Busch products are being re-introduced to the Oklahoma market starting November 1. Oklahomans for Modern Laws and several other special interest groups that are pushing for selling wine in grocery stores are hoping to capitalize on the situation to further their campaign.
I know that no society in the history of civilization has an impeccable record, but everyone has to live somewhere. I just want to live in a place that meets my needs and wants, and neither OKC nor Oklahoma can do that. After much consideration, I think DC, California, New York and Massachusetts would best suit my interests. Like I said earlier, I fully accept the higher taxes and costs of living, but feel that they have what I want and need, and that my interests would be met. Put the government aside and look at the culture: it is equally repressive and oppressive if not more so. It would be nice to live in a place where people can express themselves more freely and not feel they need to act a certain way. I haven't seen any busking since being here, nor have I seen someone dressing how they feel. It's like being bland and oblivious is encouraged here. I wore a pretty blatant (somewhat tasteless) atheist shirt to the grocery store once, and it was like a scene from The Elephant Man. At home, I wore the same shirt and people either ignored it or commented how much they loved it. Also at home, I saw Bible-thumping protestors the police had to actually surround with crime scene tape to keep people away (and keep them safe) and these girls pointed and laughed, then both flashed and mooned them. The cops just shrugged it off. There are a lot of little things like that which bother me.
If you want to know a bit about me, and how I got to OKC...
I finished summa c-u-m laude (apparently the middle is censored) at grad school just after meeting someone that I really liked. Eventually we moved in together. I had a job I hated and was trying to establish a career. In time, my a-word-that-I-can't-use-on-this-site-or-in-polite-company of a boss fired me (and within months, more people she hated). Mind you, this was just weeks before I was about to start my own business that had already received tentative support. A short while later, a cluster of bad local government decisions had home slapped me into reality: nothing is certain. I realized that unless I wanted to work customer service jobs the rest of my life, I had to move. In all fairness, I was already interested in moving even before taking this job I mentioned. In the height of the recession, two people were being supported on a small unemployment check and a low-end salary, which started increasing tension. My parents, who lived there at the time, decided to move back to Oklahoma. Not long after that I stopped eating for two weeks on account of frequent nausea. After going to the ER, I was told to see a specialist, where I was then told they found cancer. About the same time, the state government was toying with unemployment and decided to cut people off early. Of course... it's pretty obvious now that something had to give. I spent most of my savings on medical treatment, then a lot of the rest on moving expenses to get to Oklahoma to stay with family until I could find employment. I talked with my partner all the time, and we were planning on moving once I got a job somewhere else. And then... a mutual friend was murdered, and he was closer to him than I was. This started an odd rift, which was made worse when he cut me off his insurance. Then we had a talk. As it turned out, he didn't want to move. So after four years, I was left in a place to which I didn't want to move, alone, broke, unemployed... but cancer-free.
Despite all that, I still try to maintain that just over the next hill is a better future for myself. I know inside I'm stronger than the entire state of Oklahoma put together. I could easily give in and live as some zombie here with everything I have "going" for me, like family and a job. But still, I see better for myself, and with my ambition, drive and discipline, I keep going and willing to take down anything that stands in my way.
When you're ready to give me a logical explanation, please respond. Phoenix has a relatively well-used light rail, and temperatures are much hotter there and for longer periods of the year. Beyond that, the vast majority of America is hot in the summer and people still wait for trains. Contrarily, many cities are bitterly cold in the winter, and people wait for trains then too. And the remark about the poor people: if your mindset is the general consensus in OKC, then public transit will be doomed to fail. It's public for a reason, meaning that people of any economic class can use it. It benefits people with lesser income because they can get to work AND don't need to save up for a car or dedicate so much money into maintaining one. Why is that a bad thing?
And no, I guess I have no idea what it's like. I only took it every day to get to work when living in Asia. I always take it when I travel unless it doesn't exist where I am. At home, I lived five miles from downtown and walked three blocks to take the train to get there, or to venues, to the theater, to bars/clubs, to events, etc. I didn't drive five miles to park two blocks away just to take the train one block because "it was too hot." If it isn't your idea of fun, don't take it. And in case you aren't aware, public transit isn't there to be fun, it's there to offer an alternative means of transportation.
I can tell you though, it's growing much faster at home than it is here... yet, despite all the same big ideas I heard all the time, very few actually came to fruition. If the number of proposed skyscrapers there were built, the skyline would have easily been three times larger. They just fizzled out though. A lot of businesses said they intended to open there too. Many of them never did. Many big ideas in the planning stage ended up becoming watered down versions of themselves once completed. If you, or anyone else, wondered why I'm doubtful of OKC blossoming into more: there's your answer. I've seen it over, and over, and over again. I had a job for two years, and in that time my 15 minute drive became 90 minutes, 7 traffic lights became 23, mostly empty lots became strip malls and apartments... and despite that incredibly rapid growth, many proposals were just disappointments. Plain and simple: the biggest problem there is that the people resisted the change and got in the way of progress.
That is going to be very hard to do. Very. See my above complaint about home. People wanted to keep things the way they were. You can also see the quote from the other poster earlier in this response. Any time I've gone to downtown OKC, I have never come across a homeless person. That doesn't mean they aren't there, it just means I don't see them. No matter what I say though, he will believe what he wants to believe. The same can be said about anyone.
I do have deep roots and family in OKC. However, most of the "kids" in my generation (which includes me) either don't live here or don't want to stay. I have no friends here and after being here for more than two years it just isn't growing on me. A lot of what you've said could be applied to OKC (and elsewhere) too. I haven't encountered the big ego thing here, but I've come across a disproportionately large number of crazy people in OKC. By crazy I don't mean fun crazy, I mean asylum crazy. I talk to my friend at home once or twice a day, and he's commented that I've never had so many stories about locals as I have here. Yeah, I know that's not everyone, but to be honest that's a huge deterrent for me to want to meet anyone, and I'm just worn out and apathetic on the whole thing. Instead, I dedicate a lot of my free time to studying so that I can hopefully have a competitive edge in the job market in 2015.
That last question: do you mean what would I want to come to OKC?
I know that no society in the history of civilization has an impeccable record, but everyone has to live somewhere. I just want to live in a place that meets my needs and wants, and neither OKC nor Oklahoma can do that. After much consideration, I think DC, California, New York and Massachusetts would best suit my interests. Like I said earlier, I fully accept the higher taxes and costs of living, but feel that they have what I want and need, and that my interests would be met. Put the government aside and look at the culture: it is equally repressive and oppressive if not more so. It would be nice to live in a place where people can express themselves more freely and not feel they need to act a certain way. I haven't seen any busking since being here, nor have I seen someone dressing how they feel. It's like being bland and oblivious is encouraged here. I wore a pretty blatant (somewhat tasteless) atheist shirt to the grocery store once, and it was like a scene from The Elephant Man. At home, I wore the same shirt and people either ignored it or commented how much they loved it. Also at home, I saw Bible-thumping protestors the police had to actually surround with crime scene tape to keep people away (and keep them safe) and these girls pointed and laughed, then both flashed and mooned them. The cops just shrugged it off. There are a lot of little things like that which bother me.
If you want to know a bit about me, and how I got to OKC...
I finished summa c-u-m laude (apparently the middle is censored) at grad school just after meeting someone that I really liked. Eventually we moved in together. I had a job I hated and was trying to establish a career. In time, my a-word-that-I-can't-use-on-this-site-or-in-polite-company of a boss fired me (and within months, more people she hated). Mind you, this was just weeks before I was about to start my own business that had already received tentative support. A short while later, a cluster of bad local government decisions had home slapped me into reality: nothing is certain. I realized that unless I wanted to work customer service jobs the rest of my life, I had to move. In all fairness, I was already interested in moving even before taking this job I mentioned. In the height of the recession, two people were being supported on a small unemployment check and a low-end salary, which started increasing tension. My parents, who lived there at the time, decided to move back to Oklahoma. Not long after that I stopped eating for two weeks on account of frequent nausea. After going to the ER, I was told to see a specialist, where I was then told they found cancer. About the same time, the state government was toying with unemployment and decided to cut people off early. Of course... it's pretty obvious now that something had to give. I spent most of my savings on medical treatment, then a lot of the rest on moving expenses to get to Oklahoma to stay with family until I could find employment. I talked with my partner all the time, and we were planning on moving once I got a job somewhere else. And then... a mutual friend was murdered, and he was closer to him than I was. This started an odd rift, which was made worse when he cut me off his insurance. Then we had a talk. As it turned out, he didn't want to move. So after four years, I was left in a place to which I didn't want to move, alone, broke, unemployed... but cancer-free.
Despite all that, I still try to maintain that just over the next hill is a better future for myself. I know inside I'm stronger than the entire state of Oklahoma put together. I could easily give in and live as some zombie here with everything I have "going" for me, like family and a job. But still, I see better for myself, and with my ambition, drive and discipline, I keep going and willing to take down anything that stands in my way.
>>>>> I know inside I'm stronger than the entire state of Oklahoma put together.
<<<<<
That's a head-scratcher of a statement.
Sorry to hear you've had some hard knocks. Sounds like a tough situation.
I also think that, for the most part, your relationship preference would make it difficult and lonely here as OKC is much like Tulsa/Fort Worth/Little Rock, etc. in that it is not the most conducive environment for that kind of tolerance.
Here's to better days. Hope it gets better for you real soon.
Location: The edge of the world and all of Western civilization
984 posts, read 1,192,249 times
Reputation: 1691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008
>>>>> I know inside I'm stronger than the entire state of Oklahoma put together.
<<<<<
That's a head-scratcher of a statement.
Sorry to hear you've had some hard knocks. Sounds like a tough situation.
I also think that, for the most part, your relationship preference would make it difficult and lonely here as OKC is much like Tulsa/Fort Worth/Little Rock, etc. in that it is not the most conducive environment for that kind of tolerance.
Here's to better days. Hope it gets better for you real soon.
Blessings.
No, I just have the will to claw myself out of this situation. Sometimes the situation gets to me, but instead of giving in I keep up the momentum with my goal in mind. I just won't let circumstances take me down. It could be very easy for me to give a little and root where I'm planted, but I know long-term that's a horrible idea. Furthermore, I have little leisure time anymore because I dedicate so much free time to studying new skills. It's tiring, but in the future it could help me.
Regarding relationships... that's a different story. On one hand I don't care if I live here, San Francisco or rural Mississippi, if I love the person I won't go into hiding about it. I am me and no one can take that away from me, no matter where I am. Truth be told, I've had no problems getting dates, though I haven't gone on any since moving here. But in reality, I'm just not going to waste anyone's time. I don't see a point in starting something that is doomed to fail from the beginning. You see, before meeting the last ex I wanted to move to the East Coast. However, I couldn't start looking because I hadn't finished grad school yet. It didn't help that the economy tanked right when I graduated. Eventually I just scrapped the idea, but look what happened. That's the main reason, but another is a combination of a smaller dating pool and some oddities in the community. I'm upfront about moving, and one guy kept thinking I was lying just because I was afraid to reject him, another said that sounded great and that I could move him and his mother with me and support all three of us, and another was just so insane that I ended up telling him I didn't want to end up in a wood chipper. A couple here and there said they loved living in OKC early on in the conversation, and I said that I intended to move... then they hated it here and intended to move too. Those are just some highlights of my experiences in town. Maybe it's a byproduct of spending a lot of time in casinos in my younger years, but I've learned not to show all my cards early. Culturally that doesn't seem to go over well here, and I know it makes me come off as icy, aloof and somewhat intimidating.
I will say, topic appropriate, that the scene here doesn't entice me to want to stay. If it were larger and had more than just bars it might make it feel more like a home. However, it isn't growing noticeably and has a LOT of room for improvement. I think it's a combination of people moving away/people not moving in, with a likely heavier emphasis on the latter. The shame is that it's been theorized that the GLBT community can really help to slingshot cities forward in a lot of areas. And justifiably so, I think there's a perception that it's not welcoming here to a point that the community isn't vocal and doesn't see enough promise in any progress. Texas and Georgia are good examples: Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, etc. are in states with people who can (and do) hinder the community, but the locals see a reason to stay and fight.
Chicago to OKC was $620 roundtrip this month nonstop (1-stop in DEN was still $550).
Chicago to Seattle was $199 roundtrip this month nonstop.
Chicago to Boston was $189 roundtrip this month nonstop.
And there were no early morning flights to OKC. If it's that difficult to get from Chicago, the largest city in the Midwest, over to OKC, then you kind of have a problem for businesses.
Its been nearly impossible for me to meet an attractive woman that I want to go out with a 2nd time. They get married at 22, have kids, and are divorced with kids by 30. They typically don't want more. The divorce rate is extremely high here. Thats huge for me because I want my own family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the12ronin
Funny, this all being said..I just yesterday spoke with a woman on the phone(just had become acquainted) and come to find out she had four kids. I silently chuckled to myself at the would-be sterotype that many of the women are with child, but just dismissed it off. The pertinent part of the story comes later though, when I asked her -if- the stereotype was true. This was a born and raised Okie mind you. She said, " yep, bout 90 percent of us got kids. Just the way it is out here."
Quote:
Originally Posted by flintysooner
Just anecdotal but when I was a kid graduating from high school way back when there really were a lot of my group that married very quickly either out of high school, during college, or soon after college. It was very common for couples to form early in high school or even junior high. And it was relatively uncommon still for people to divorce.
By the time my children were graduating from high school it seemed to me that most of their group was waiting until sometime during college or after and some much later. At the same time divorce in my group became much more common.
Now I have grandchildren in college and practically none of their group (so it seems to me at least) are getting married quickly. The idea of exclusive couples seems even strange. Divorce in their parents' group seems to have occurred much earlier than in mine but probably not significantly greater rate.
All the data now suggest that those who marry in their late 20s or early 30s have a much lower rate of divorce than in their early 20s or teens. This cuts through all races, education and income levels. Oklahoma has one of the highest white divorce rates in the country, after only Nevada (obvious reasons) and Maine. I think part of that has to do with marrying super early and overall lower education attainment. For a state that is fiercely socially conservative and prides itself in family values, this is a massive failing and I dare say a bit hypocritical. This is going on in Oklahoma at the same time the white college-educated population elsewhere in the country are experiencing historically low divorce rates (1 in 6).
This trend towards single parenthood is a big problem in household income inequality. A married couple making $50k each (reasonable) has a combined income that puts them in the top 15% of incomes. If just one of them gets promoted into management and makes $150k+ at middle age, they are then around the top 1%. And if one gets laid off, they have a cushion. The single parent meanwhile is barely at the median and would still need to compete for a house on the same market for a good school district.
There's a worrisome breakdown of the traditional family among lower and lower middle class whites in Oklahoma, just like some of the neighborhoods described by Charles Murray's Coming Apart. I don't know what the answer is, but putting more Ten Commandment statues clearly isn't doing anything to decrease Oklahoma's out-of-wedlock births and high divorce rates.
Atlguy39 Finding A Hot Girl Is HARD And Keeping Her Is HARDER
Atlguy39 Finding A Hot Girl Is HARD And Keeping Her Is HARDER.....you are doing all of the right things
however it just might take you a very long time.
Another valuable piece of information is that women view men who whine and complain a lot as Wimpy
Sort of Individuals .You need to act bold and outgoing even if you are trembling and shaking on the
inside....here's a video of the Average White Band....A Love Of Your Own.......
Happy Holidays To Atlguy39 and everyone else on City Data Forum....
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That's a head-scratcher of a statement.
Atlguy39 Finding A Hot Girl Is HARD And Keeping Her Is HARDER
