[_redbird_]

Originally Posted by lasomeday

Coburn doesn't want to be President, but if he did I would love to vote for him. He can be whatever you want to call him. Maverick, my Bromance, right wing pro-life Christian. My vote will be for him.

You may want to put the gay bromance with Coburn on hold. Another quote from Coburn: "The gay community has infiltrated the very centers of power in every area across this country, and they wield extreme power ... That agenda is the greatest threat to our freedom that we face today. Why do you think we see the rationalization for abortion and multiple sexual partners? That's a gay agenda."

LOL. Reality check there homophobe. Gay men don't have an agenda on abortions and lesbians are pretty much in the adoption bracket. BUT! The good news is you count on Coburn's opposition to allowing same-sex adoptions in DC.

If politics make for strange bedfellows, we know who Sally Kern has been in bed with, don't we? Isn't Kern the one who said she hates gays more than terrorists?

If you're lucky, the Coburn Town Hate meeting will hang some effigys in the form of gays and abortionists and have a good old fashioned lynching.

[StillwaterTownie]

And to think that President Obama didn't seem to mind much getting a big hug from Coburn after a speech given before congress.

[Annemieke Roell]

Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008

Your words are spiteful. Nice. You did an excellent job of exhibiting "tolerance" to me, the intolerant fundamentalist.

You fundies annoy the snot out of me with your need to push YOUR "values" onto everybody else. Nothing to do with intolerance ..... it has to do with living YOUR life according to YOUR values and allow others do the same.

If you can show me that a 2 month old cell can sustain itself and live outside the womb on its own, I may change my mind. Lacking that, a cell is a cell and should be treated like that.

Using your logic monthly discards of eggs could be construed as "killing an innocent child". Please.

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by Schousse

You fundies annoy the snot out of me with your need to push YOUR "values" onto everybody else. Nothing to do with intolerance ..... it has to do with living YOUR life according to YOUR values and allow others do the same.

If you can show me that a 2 month old cell can sustain itself and live outside the womb on its own, I may change my mind. Lacking that, a cell is a cell and should be treated like that.

Using your logic monthly discards of eggs could be construed as "killing an innocent child". Please.

>>>>>
If you can show me that a 2 month old cell can sustain itself and live outside the womb on its own, I may change my mind. Lacking that, a cell is a cell and should be treated like that.
<<<<<

Wow. Talk about some interesing logic. A newborn, nor even a toddler for that matter, could technically sustain itself. Are they nothing more than cells as well?

I believe that because the unborn baby is helpless, unable to sustain itself demands that much more protection. Which, interestingly enough, is the same logic I apply to newborns and young children. I do not discriminate in that regard.

And you totally disregarded the intimation of my last response. Who are you to decide when life begins? If you cannot decipher this (you cannot, be honest) then should you not err on the side of caution, if in fact, the baby is in the early formative stage (s) of life? I'm not forcing my view on you, I'm asking you to reasonably answer a question. Will you answer it or dodge it?

Also, I saw in another post the mention of rape (a horrible crime that is not punished severely enough IMO) and its place within this discussion of the sanctity of life and abortion. The vast majority of abortions occur because of the irresponsibility of the individuals involved, not the incidence of rape.

See the following data, for instance:
Why Abortions Are Performed
· The overwhelming majority of all abortions, (95%), are done as a means of birth control.
· Only 1% are performed because of rape or incest;
· 1% because of fetal abnormalities;
· 3% due to the mother's health problems.

Abortion Statistics by U.S. State, Race, Age and Worldwide Statistics

My contention is this: let's focus on the over 90% of abortions that occur as a result of irresponsibility.

[_redbird_]

Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008

Also, I saw in another post the mention of rape (a horrible crime that is not punished severely enough IMO) and its place within this discussion of the sanctity of life and abortion. The vast majority of abortions occur because of the irresponsibility of the individuals involved, not the incidence of rape.

See the following data, for instance:
Why Abortions Are Performed
· The overwhelming majority of all abortions, (95%), are done as a means of birth control.
· Only 1% are performed because of rape or incest;
· 1% because of fetal abnormalities;
· 3% due to the mother's health problems.

Abortion Statistics by U.S. State, Race, Age and Worldwide Statistics

My contention is this: let's focus on the over 90% of abortions that occur as a result of irresponsibility.

Excellent post, Bass. My only gripe is this. The MD and the person getting the abortion may not share the religious beliefs of Coburn, yet Coburn has slated the abortionist for the death penalty. That is insanely egocentric bordering on Third Reich annihilation of those who do not share your ideologies.

And to be fair, I am sure Coburn has a lot of issues upon which I may agree to some degree with him on. Some of his platforms fall into the CAPTAIN OBVIOUS category, like budget, corruption, etc.

But then he makes quotes like saying there are so many lesbians in SE Oklahoma, the girls have to go to the bathroom one at a time. Give me a break. He is falling into the Palin-esque trap of eating his own foot every time he opens his mouth.

Sorry, from what I have read on Coburn's stance on Native rights, abortionists, and his religious retard-right stance that gays are the biggest threat to America crap, puts him on the peripheral edge of extremist beliefs on par with Westboro Baptist propaganda.

Coburn and Kern's days are numbered. You can't spread hate and call it a family value. Sorry. But enjoy your Town meetings and we shall just agree to disagree with who we support.

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by _redbird_

Excellent post, Bass. My only gripe is this. The MD and the person getting the abortion may not share the religious beliefs of Coburn, yet Coburn has slated the abortionist for the death penalty. That is insanely egocentric bordering on Third Reich annihilation of those who do not share your ideologies.

And to be fair, I am sure Coburn has a lot of issues upon which I may agree to some degree with him on. Some of his platforms fall into the CAPTAIN OBVIOUS category, like budget, corruption, etc.

But then he makes quotes like saying there are so many lesbians in SE Oklahoma, the girls have to go to the bathroom one at a time. Give me a break. He is falling into the Palin-esque trap of eating his own foot every time he opens his mouth.

Sorry, from what I have read on Coburn's stance on Native rights, abortionists, and his religious retard-right stance that gays are the biggest threat to America crap, puts him on the peripheral edge of extremist beliefs on par with Westboro Baptist propaganda.

Coburn and Kern's days are numbered. You can't spread hate and call it a family value. Sorry. But enjoy your Town meetings and we shall just agree to disagree with who we support.

>>>>>
yet Coburn has slated the abortionist for the death penalty.
<<<<<

Yes, he is absolutely hypocritical in this regard. I do not uphold the death penalty.....although I do waffle sometimes on some of these complete wack-job serial killers who seem to have no conscience at all. If we could just put them in a cell and throw away the key that would be fine with me.

And yes, I do not like his seemingly low view of Native Americans. Perhaps he has gotten away from his eastern Oklahoma roots rubbin' elbows with all those suits in DC? I'm sure my mom and dad would love to give him a piece of their minds, LOL.

[colleeng47]

As a woman and the mother of a 17 year old daughter, I need to weigh in on this one. If my 17 year old daughter got pregnant (which she shouldn't because I've stressed responsiblity to her for years -- she knows she can come to me for help in that regard), with her consent (which I know I would have), we would be off to the abortion clinic. I agree with others who have said up to a certain point there is no SUSTAINABLE life. I would not have her life ruined because of a lapse of judgement.

I know too many families where the girl had a baby at a young age because the family was going to "support her decision." Fast forward a few years and the "baby" is a neglected undisciplined terror because mom still wants to play and grandmom and grandpa are too tired to do this all over again.

[karibear]

Since this seems to be sliding towards the pros and cons of abortion, I have more to add. I do NOT advocate abortion as a method of birth control, btw. There are only two methods that are 100% foolproof - total abstinence and sterilization. Other methods have a high success rate, but none are 100% effective.

Having said that, I also have known some people who shouldn't have been trusted with a guppy, let alone a child. One family I knew loved the idea of pregnancy - he, because in some way it 'proved' his virility, her - I have no idea. They continued to pop out babies year after year, but after the first five they were always given up in a private adoption. They probably did perform a great service for prospective parents who'd been on waiting lists so long they were no longer young enough to be considered ideal parents, but how do you tell a child that while you were lucky to get them, as far as their biological parents were concerned, they were just surplus?

Still another woman I knew wanted a child, just one - but this was long enough ago so that when she had surgery for something else, her husband privately told the surgeon to tie her tubes, because he didn't want children. She didn't find out until quite a few years later when she finally went to a fertility clinic to see if there was something she could do about not conceiving. Once she did that, her new doc got her records and that's when she found out. She also filed for divorce the next day.

[lasomeday]

I also know families where the girl had the baby and gave it up for adoption. She and the guy were fine with it and the family that couldn't have the baby were too.

I am not for the death penalty for abortionist. It is not against the law. I am for the death penalty though. I am sure you libs will have some thing to say about that.

I am for Coburn because he believes in a small government with less spending, lower taxes, and more freedom for the average citizen. He does not believe in giving money to special interest groups which a lot of senators do (pork).

[karibear]

Originally Posted by lasomeday

I also know families where the girl had the baby and gave it up for adoption. She and the guy were fine with it and the family that couldn't have the baby were too.

I am not for the death penalty for abortionist. It is not against the law. I am for the death penalty though. I am sure you libs will have some thing to say about that.

I am for Coburn because he believes in a small government with less spending, lower taxes, and more freedom for the average citizen. He does not believe in giving money to special interest groups which a lot of senators do (pork).

I used to be in favor of the death penalty, but as I got older, I discovered how often the wrong people were convicted. I'm not talking about the true sociopaths, just the ordinary run of the mill once in a lifetime killer, often by accident of circumstance.

What I would like to see - as much as I dislike the thought of big government - is some kind of uniform sentencing code, both within states and across all states. I've read about incidents where men got less time for killing their wives than for poaching. There's just something off about that.