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I do not think it means anything more or less than what was stated. Someone claimed SAHMs had higher educations, it was pointed out that was not actually the case, and facts were given to support that.
The fact is that many of these factors are going to cross correlate. Parent education, parent income level, child's education level, child's income level, etc all because SES is a huge determining factor for overall success of a child.
Why so many women are freaked out with the idea that WM or SAHM are basically very similar in measurable outcome for children is beyond me. If anything I have learned from reading all the research on this subject (which I was not hugely conversant with) is that both choices have equally positive outcomes for kids. You learn something new everyday.
I don't get it either. Somehow, saying the kids of working moms thrive is an insult to many SAHM's. And I don't get getting your nose out of joint when it's pointed out we chose to model different things for our kids. We did. I would think that people would be ok with what they CHOSE to model for their kids. And then there are the reasons why women should work but that's a different debate that has nothing to do with our kids or parenting. It has to do with the high cost of time out of the work force.
If you choose to live a certain way, you are teaching your kids that that is what is important. You are modeling for them living that way. That doesn't mean that's what they'll do but it stacks the odds in favor of that lifestyle. Odds have it my dd's will be WM's. They have the confidence to do what they want because I've showed them how it's done. You would think that if a lifestyle is important enough for you to choose to live it, you'd be ok with what it models for your kids.
I like that my kids see my dh and I as more equal. I like that I'm teaching my daughters how to balance family and work. I like that, by my actions, I show them the importance of an education every day. I really like what I model for my kids. I show them that women's careers are important. I show them that there is plenty of time for both career and home.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 09-26-2011 at 06:21 PM..
How do you define "matter"? I surely would say how one parents "matters" to the outcome of kids' upbringing. And having a stay at home parent can be one of the factors that yields said successful outcome. Parenting is not a one tactic thing. But how one craft's one life surely DOES "matter" when it comes to the successful upbringing of kids.
(Trying desperately to follow forum rules about rude and inappropriate behavior toward seriously offensive poster.)
Makes a difference in how our kids turn out. At the end of the day, THAT is all that matters. Do our kids turn out differently because of a choice we made. If the answer is no, then it's just a choice to be made and makes no difference.
I think my working makes a difference only in a few areas. One being that my dd's see women as more capable and equal to men. Another being that the importance of education is stressed. My dd's are growing up fully aware of the fact that there is more than enough time for work and home life. And then there's the benefit my income brings to the table. When studies are done, they always correct for SES but that's not quite right because for many of us WM's, we only have the SES we have BECAUSE we work. I push my kids into a better bracket with my income and THAT does matter.
I think some of the SAHM's here would do well to list the things they wanted to model for their dd's when they decided to model SAH. They, obviously, liked it enough to choose to live it.
There is nothing offensive about my posts. I'm just stating what studies have found. And, when you think about it, it really does make sense. Look what WM's model for their dd's. We model balancing work and family. We show our kids that there is ample time for both career and family life. They see us using our educations every day. It should come as no surprise that our dd's value education more, have higher goals and more confidence in themselves to do whatever they need to. They've watched their mothers do it for years. Children learn best through modeling.
If you don't care to model these things, that's your choice. You model what you choose to model for your kids. I would assume that is what you value since you chose to live it. I value self sufficiency and productivity. I value self confidence and education. I model a lifestyle that reflects these values for my kids. Fortunately, working status doesn't matter so I don't have to worry about my children's well being WRT this decision. We are free to make this choice because it doesn't matter if we stay home or work for a living when it comes to our kids.
I don't get it either. Somehow, saying the kids of working moms thrive is an insult to many SAHM's. And I don't get getting your nose out of joint when it's pointed out we chose to model different things for our kids. We did. I would think that people would be ok with what they CHOSE to model for their kids.
If you choose to live a certain way, you are teaching your kids that that is what is important. You are modeling for them living that way. That doesn't mean that's what they'll do but it stacks the odds in favor of that lifestyle. Odds have it my dd's will be WM's. They have the confidence to do what they want because I've showed them how it's done. You would think that if a lifestyle is important enough for you to choose to live it, you'd be ok with what it models for your kids.
I like that my kids see my dh and I as more equal. I like that I'm teaching my daughters how to balance family and work. I like that, by my actions, I show them the importance of an education every day. I really like what I model for my kids. I show them that women's careers are important. I show them that there is plenty of time for both career and home.
Lucky for me, my kids are smart enough to understand my education, career, and priorities without actually having to see me leave the house at 6am each morning. It's amazing what talking to your kids can achieve.
I hope you aren't insinuating that I'm freaked out by that fact, because it actually supports my entire argument.
And you need to take what I'm saying in context with the posts that I'm responding to, which are quite clearly supposing that the daughters of SAHM's are at a disadvantage over those that have WM's, in terms of education and self confidence and overall managing skills - and are using the studies to back up that supposition.
maciesmom is entirely correct, it's the way that the studies are being used to back up a position that throws oneself in a positive light at the expense of others' experience, that has people somewhat irritated.
Used by who? Me? Where?
And I apologize, I did not mean you specifically by any means, I was referring to other posters. I actually find you to be one of the more clear headed responses even if I do not agree with all of your reasoning.
How do you define "matter"? I surely would say how one parents "matters" to the outcome of kids' upbringing. And having a stay at home parent can be one of the factors that yields said successful outcome. Parenting is not a one tactic thing. But how one craft's one life surely DOES "matter" when it comes to the successful upbringing of kids.
(Trying desperately to follow forum rules about rude and inappropriate behavior toward seriously offensive poster.)
It seems to be that you are stating being a SAHM makes one's children more likely to be successful. If that is the case by what measure? All of the data presented here shows that there is no measurable difference between children of SAHM and WM.
Makes a difference in how our kids turn out. At the end of the day, THAT is all that matters. Do our kids turn out differently because of a choice we made.
No ONE choice, by itself, determines this outcome. But parents make determinations of the whole family scene, and that definitely affects the outcome. I am quite certain that my choice to stay home directly impacted the outcome of my kids. I believe that my early education was simply far better than what was available for local daycare.
It is my belief that either way can be executed successfully.
Quote:
If the answer is no, then it's just a choice to be made and makes no difference.
Well the answer is not no, in this case.
Quote:
I think my working makes a difference only in a few areas. One being that my dd's see women as more capable and equal to men.
That is not a matter of your working. That is a matter of your attitude. Neither of my children ever see women as less capable or less equal to men in the time I was home with them. Since both DH and I strongly valued the contribution I was making, they saw exactly that. Valued contribution. Since DH and I discuss things openly and come to consensus decision, they had no reason to conclude there was inequality.
Quote:
Another being that the importance of education is stressed.
Again that has nothing to do with working outside the home. That has to do with valuing education.
Quote:
My dd's are growing up fully aware of the fact that there is more than enough time for work and home life. And then there's the benefit my income brings to the table. When studies are done, they always correct for SES but that's not quite right because for many of us WM's, we only have the SES we have BECAUSE we work. I push my kids into a better bracket with my income and THAT does matter.
I don't get it either. Somehow, saying the kids of working moms thrive is an insult to many SAHM's. And I don't get getting your nose out of joint when it's pointed out we chose to model different things for our kids. We did. I would think that people would be ok with what they CHOSE to model for their kids.
It's not an insult when it's say like that, what's insulting is you telling us that we are not adequate role models for our daughters when it comes to equality of the sexes, when you imply that education must be the reason why people chose to stay at home (rather than lifestyle or other factors), or when you post study after study and then imply from the data of that study that WOHM's are somehow better, happier, more successful, etc...
Defending your decisions is one thing, defending your decisions while insulting people who made the decision that seems opposite to your own is something completely different.
I don't get it either. Somehow, saying the kids of working moms thrive is an insult to many SAHM's. And I don't get getting your nose out of joint when it's pointed out we chose to model different things for our kids. We did. I would think that people would be ok with what they CHOSE to model for their kids.
If you choose to live a certain way, you are teaching your kids that that is what is important. You are modeling for them living that way. That doesn't mean that's what they'll do but it stacks the odds in favor of that lifestyle. Odds have it my dd's will be WM's. They have the confidence to do what they want because I've showed them how it's done. You would think that if a lifestyle is important enough for you to choose to live it, you'd be ok with what it models for your kids.
I like that my kids see my dh and I as more equal. I like that I'm teaching my daughters how to balance family and work. I like that, by my actions, I show them the importance of an education every day. I really like what I model for my kids. I show them that women's careers are important. I show them that there is plenty of time for both career and home.
I have to stick my $.02 here. I'm just not sure why a mother needs to work outside the home in order for their daughters to grow up with that goal. Could you stand it if one of yours wanted to be a SAHM?
The way I have lived my life has little bearing on what my children will accomplish. That is up to them. We just supplied the means to their particular dreams, not ours. The eldest has already surpassed the education level of his parents, and the other two will most likely do the same. We value education, and they know it. We modeled it by being involved in their schooling from the beginning. I was able to do that precisely because I chose to stay home.
I have always felt equal to my husband, because he treats me as an equal. The same thing occurred when I was the child of a SAHM. My parents made all major decisions together. They stressed education also, even though my mother didn't finish college until I was out of high school.
No ONE choice, by itself, determines this outcome. But parents make determinations of the whole family scene, and that definitely affects the outcome. I am quite certain that my choice to stay home directly impacted the outcome of my kids. I believe that my early education was simply far better than what was available for local daycare.
It is my belief that either way can be executed successfully.
Well the answer is not no, in this case.
That is not a matter of your working. That is a matter of your attitude. Neither of my children ever see women as less capable or less equal to men in the time I was home with them. Since both DH and I strongly valued the contribution I was making, they saw exactly that. Valued contribution. Since DH and I discuss things openly and come to consensus decision, they had no reason to conclude there was inequality.
Again that has nothing to do with working outside the home. That has to do with valuing education.
Aren't you so proud of yourself!
UGH. Why do you find it necessary to justify your choices? I'm puzzled by this. It is because our working status doesn't matter (and I'll take 50 years of research against your claims you're just sure of it because you feel that way ) that we have a choice in this matter. YOU got to CHOOSE. YOU got what you WANTED. Do you, seriously, need someone to validate the choice for you? Are you that insecure in your choice?
Working status doesn't matter. That's why we get to CHOOSE. It's a good thing it doesn't matter because we wouldn't have a choice if it did.
Lots of things matter. Good parenting matters. Intact families matter. Maternal education before having kids matters. SES matters. Where you live matters. Paternal involvement matters. BUT whether or not mom works does not. It's a transparent choice when it comes to our kids. But that is good.
If SAH were necessary or important to do, then we would not have a choice in this matter because it would make a difference. Aside from the financial aspect, our working status has little to do with how our kids turn out and THAT is what gives us a choice in the matter. If it mattered, we wouldn't have a choice. We do because it doesn't matter.
Be glad you live in a time when you have a choice in the matter. SAH/WOH aren't about our kids. Our kids do just fine either way.
People do all kinds of things that are not necessary or important. One could easily say that it IS important to be at the bus stop when your kids get off, and whatever job you do outside the house is not necessary or important.
FYI I've worked and I've stayed home. I see both sides, but the gloves come off when you start telling people what they do all day isn't important. It doesn't have to be important to you, only to them.
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) that we have a choice in this matter. YOU got to CHOOSE. YOU got what you WANTED. Do you, seriously, need someone to validate the choice for you? Are you that insecure in your choice?