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I'm sure I'll get a lot of flak on this, but what the heck possesses parents to set their kids up for disaster-- along the line of having their kids present themselves as "different" and outrageous as possible, & then the kids are left with the confrontations that result from it?
One example from recent news: a 14-yr-old boy wore dresses, ladies' shoes, & makeup to school, & had been engaging in this kind of behavior since the 5th grade. his classmate who shot & killed him is currently on trial.
Awhile back I read online about a mother talking about her daughter's suicide-- at 12 yrs. old she'd taken to wearing full "goth" get-ups, & after being tormented by other kids she ended up killing herself.
Further back, I read about a father telling his elementary-aged kid "if all the other boys in your class wear black shoes, you will wear brown!"
The idea seems to be "be as outrageous as you possibly can-- and demand that other people 'accept' you."
Frankly I think it's a very negative message to give to kids, even when they don't end up in disasters like the two examples above.
I don't know...living vicariously through their children? Rebelling because their parents tried to make them "fit in", "not stand out"? Honestly, it breaks my heart. As if being a kid in school isn't hard enough. The horrible thing of it is, most of those parents never accept any of the blame. It's everyone else's fault but theirs.
How do you know the idea came from the parent? When I was a teenager, the goth thing was usually a signal of a troubled kid, not a reaction to parental pressure. You may be putting the chicken before the egg.
Usually allowing for your children to express their individuality is a *good* thing.
I think you are putting the cart before the horse in some of these examples. Allowing your child to be an individual, freeing them to express that individuality and supporting their decision to do so is not a negative. FORCING them to be individualistic simply for the sake of being "different" is wrong in the same way that forcing a child who wants to assert their indivuality into being compliant with societal norms is also wrong.
In the first two examples you provided I don't see where the parents were wrong in allowing the child to express themselves. Certainly they would be deficient if they didn't prep their kids on how to deal with the reactions that they were bound to get, but forcing them to be someone they are not, would have been wrong. The boy who wore dresses wasn't shot because he wore dresses, he was shot because he was quite open about his attraction to the other boy and what he would like to do with him. That was a very complicated case. The second example is harder to understand, but taking to wearing goth clothes and adopting that attitude is often something seen being done in concert with deeper issues.
The final example is a case where the parent was, IMO, wrong. You don't force someone to be different for the sake of being different, though it sounds like that particular case was more or less an analogy that one should be an individual and not simply follow the pack. More of a twist on the "if all your friends jumped off a bridge" statement then an actual effort to force someone to be different.
True: When I was in school in the heart of the hippie craze in the 60's most kids had semi-hippie clothes and hair. That was the style. I knew one girl whose father refused to allow his children to look like everyone else. And they certainly weren't going to look like an "unwashed" hippie. His sons had to keep their hair cut very short, couldn't wear anything current and the girls couldn't wear mini-dresses, go-go boots, whatever.
Then, because he was a total whack, he took his "well-dressed" family and paraded them through Height Ashbury (Hippie Central) during the Summer of Love. Apparently trying to prove his family was better. Or something. They were mortified and I don't think the daughter I knew ever forgave her father.
I'm sure I'll get a lot of flak on this, but what the heck possesses parents to set their kids up for disaster-- along the line of having their kids present themselves as "different" and outrageous as possible, & then the kids are left with the confrontations that result from it?
One example from recent news: a 14-yr-old boy wore dresses, ladies' shoes, & makeup to school, & had been engaging in this kind of behavior since the 5th grade. his classmate who shot & killed him is currently on trial.
Awhile back I read online about a mother talking about her daughter's suicide-- at 12 yrs. old she'd taken to wearing full "goth" get-ups, & after being tormented by other kids she ended up killing herself.
Further back, I read about a father telling his elementary-aged kid "if all the other boys in your class wear black shoes, you will wear brown!"
The idea seems to be "be as outrageous as you possibly can-- and demand that other people 'accept' you."
Frankly I think it's a very negative message to give to kids, even when they don't end up in disasters like the two examples above.
Hmm...
Parents/Kids who push/seek to be accepted for who they are or want to be...
OR
Parents/Kids who can't/won't accept anyone who isn't like them and go so far as to bully/cause others harm...
Tia - what do you see as the bigger problem????
Here's my blunt opinion. What the h*ll is wrong with people? Why can't people just live and let live? As long as someone isn't infringing/impairing my rights, freedoms, well being, etc. - who am I to judge how they want to dress, be, live, believe, express themselves, etc?...Folks just need to mind their own d*mn business and leave well enough alone.
When I saw the title, I thought the thread would be about pushy parents pushing their kids into doing something that they were no good at. You know the type they have the skinny 4y.o. who may make a great runner but they want him to play foot ball or the fat kids mother wants her to be a ballerina or the dumb ass kids dad thinks he should be math champ.
But what I read was kids doing something. Now maybe parents should have interved to stop it but hardly parents setting the kids up. Except for the black and brown shoes thing.
Quote:
The idea seems to be "be as outrageous as you possibly can-- and demand that other people 'accept' you."
Some how this makes it OK to kill someone you don't like.
Now I know you will find this next bit hard to take and will probably want to jump on a plane, invade my country and kill me but you see in a way the rest of world (sweeping generalisation here) sees Americans as having this way of saying - Freedom of democracy for all - Do it our way or we will have to invade you.
Now dressing up in womens clothing or dressing as a goth is a bit weird and not something I would normally condone although I did allow my daughter to dress up as a boy (uniform and all) and attend a boys school for part of a day until she was discovered.
But none of this is threatening. Just different.
And as others have said, an indication of troubled teens. Maybe calling out for love or acceptance or understanding or someone to talk to.
Parents/Kids who push/seek to be accepted for who they are or want to be...
OR
Parents/Kids who can't/won't accept anyone who isn't like them and go so far as to bully/cause others harm...
Tia - what do you see as the bigger problem????
Here's my blunt opinion. What the h*ll is wrong with people? Why can't people just live and let live? As long as someone isn't infringing/impairing my rights, freedoms, well being, etc. - who am I to judge how they want to dress, be, live, believe, express themselves, etc?...Folks just need to mind their own d*mn business and leave well enough alone.
Parents/Kids who push/seek to be accepted for who they are or want to be...
OR
Parents/Kids who can't/won't accept anyone who isn't like them and go so far as to bully/cause others harm...
Tia - what do you see as the bigger problem????
Here's my blunt opinion. What the h*ll is wrong with people? Why can't people just live and let live? As long as someone isn't infringing/impairing my rights, freedoms, well being, etc. - who am I to judge how they want to dress, be, live, believe, express themselves, etc?...Folks just need to mind their own d*mn business and leave well enough alone.
And right here it is! This is the talk that some parents have with their kids and this is why their kids get bullied! Because people (especially school kids) do NOT accept drastic differences in other kids. Because those kids do NOT leave well enough alone! Telling your kid "Screw those other kids, you just do what you WANNA do!", IS setting your kids up to be tormented and isolated. NO, they don't have to be exactly like other kids, but they DO need to pay attention to what IS accepted. If they can't and won't do so, they are GOING to have their lives made miserable.
You can be an individual without being an extremist. For some people, that's just not good enough. They expect everyone ELSE to change THEIR views and beliefs in order to adapt to THEM. It's the same old BS that gets talked about on here all the time. Don't adapt yourself at all. Expect everyone else to change!
I could see the thought that the parents were "at fault" by "setting their kids up" if the examples would have been elementary aged kids being pushed into doing or being something by their parents... but that is not the case. The examples given are of teenage (or almost teenage) kids. Whole different ball game.
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